Herr Barnack Posted November 11, 2014 Share #1 Posted November 11, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, all - I happened upon this blog Leica M60 + Subtraction.com while wandering the vast wasteland of the interweb. Regarding the M Edition 60 camera, the blog author takes umbrage over the price of the camera ($20,000 USD/16084 € ) and makes the following observation: ...I find it so sad when companies create these exorbitant editions of their products. It’s symptomatic of a brand that’s so beholden to its own legacy that its greatest ambition is to stop making real products for real people... This statement strikes me as sour grapes thinking, with an underlying frustration and jealousy that results in an outlook of "I want one but can't afford one - therefore Leica is run by a bunch of elitist shitheads. How dare they deny me what I want!" Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 11, 2014 Posted November 11, 2014 Hi Herr Barnack, Take a look here The M Edition 60 camera and jealousy. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pieterpronk Posted November 11, 2014 Share #2 Posted November 11, 2014 Obviously the author is bitter, but he has reason to be. We all do. In some ways I'm bitter too about the fact that I happen to enjoy the rangefinder experience and that I enjoy digital photography. That fact combined with the fact that I'm not so rich that I don't find the pricing of the only digital rangefinder exorbitant certainly isn't something to be happy about. Many here seem to feel the same. They would like the lcd-less digital camera, but not in the special edition which raises the price even more. It's a shame Leica needs to make special editions when there are people that would like that edition for a more normal price. I can see that in a niche market Leica has little choice but to cater to those that can afford special editions, and I can see that Leica has to make the normal Leica M as expensive as it is. (or I at least I can imagine it, since I have no knowledge about how Leica would do were the camera's less expensive), but it's still kinda sad that I happen to enjoy using the most expensive camera system in the world. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted November 11, 2014 Share #3 Posted November 11, 2014 The M60 (like some other special editions) was intentionally designed to arouse, in various degrees, lust, surprise and envy... anything except indifference. The review merely shows to what extent this marketing plan has worked. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 11, 2014 Share #4 Posted November 11, 2014 an underlying frustration and jealousy that results in an outlook of "I want one but can't afford one - therefore Leica is run by a bunch of elitist shitheads. How dare they deny me what I want!" Yes, but that wasn't what the blogger wrote. It was just a short blog comment that expressed regret that Leica have produced an LCD-less M camera only in the form of a stainless steel special edition (shown being unpacked wearing white gloves:rolleyes:) for $20K rather than as a regular production item. He also bemoans the general strategy of companies leveraging their heritage to produce commemorative editions rather than concentrate on producing the finest products possible for actual use by regular customers. You may not agree with that point of view but I hardly think it is controversial. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted November 11, 2014 Share #5 Posted November 11, 2014 ... a brand that’s so beholden to its own legacy that its greatest ambition is to stop making real products for real people ... Yes, the release of the M "Edition 60" as a limited-edition model sure is debatable. I guess it was just some kind of test balloon, to explore public reception. It's a radical idea, after all ... even more radical than the M Monochrom was. However, accusing Leica Camera of having the ambition to stop making real products is the most absurd conclusion to arrive at. As a matter of fact, Leica presented more new products at Photokina than Canon and Nikon combined, and the M "Edition 60" was just one of them. And there sure is a lot more new products upcoming in the near future. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 11, 2014 Share #6 Posted November 11, 2014 Obviously the author is bitter, but he has reason to be. We all do. Actually we shouldn't. This whole perception is based on the idea that Leica makes an exorbitant profit on their products. They do not. It is less than a decade ago that they were teetering on the brink of financial ruin. Yes, it would be nice for a small section of Leica's customer base, mostly represented on this forum, if a camera like this were a regular edition. I think that would have been a bridge too far from a marketing point of view, however. Leica can still not afford a major disaster. A special edition to recoup R&D seems to me to be a smart move. It could pave the way for a hoi-polloi edition... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 11, 2014 Share #7 Posted November 11, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) The fact that you need to wear scientists white gloves to prepare and operate the camera says it all;) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 11, 2014 Share #8 Posted November 11, 2014 Oh! I thought they were waiter's gloves.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 11, 2014 Share #9 Posted November 11, 2014 I can understand jealousy but bitterness? The M-E is an excellent camera, why don't they use it? Still too expensive? Why don't they buy a mirrorless camera instead? We have neved had that many opportunities to use Leica lenses on 4/3, APS and FF bodies. Quit whining folks and enjoy photography. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted November 11, 2014 Share #10 Posted November 11, 2014 I for one would have loved it if the M e. 60 was the M that I purchased some time ago, and that Leica now released the M as an exepesive upgrade with screen etc . Oh yes, I envy those puchasing a M e. 60 for photography. While counting savings I must still trust the duct-tape covering my M screen . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 11, 2014 Share #11 Posted November 11, 2014 (edited) Porsche is making 918 of the 2015 918 Spyders @ $845K a pop and they've got orders for all but 100 thus far. Economically it makes a lot of sense. It gives them better publicity and a much greater ROI than not-for-public-sale concept cars doing the car show circuit. Pricing something so high that only someone drowning in money would buy is also a good tactic. Cars that only some oil sheikh or Chinese industrialist can afford is something most guys don't get nearly as envious of as the ones their next-door neighbor or brother in law can afford Edited November 11, 2014 by bocaburger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted November 11, 2014 Share #12 Posted November 11, 2014 If Leica were to offer an M-P without a screen, (and not stainless, etc.) at a premium of $2000 more than an M, would there be talk about jealousy? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 11, 2014 Share #13 Posted November 11, 2014 If Leica were to offer an M-P without a screen, (and not stainless, etc.) at a premium of $2000 more than an M, would there be talk about jealousy? It would depend on the size of the screw. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted November 11, 2014 Share #14 Posted November 11, 2014 I want Leica to be successful. That way they'll keep masking camera and lenses for me and keep the service department open. Companies need to be profitable to survive. If that means they make limited editions at prices well above what I'm prepared to pay, fine. After all, collectors need something to collect. I can't afford an Aston Martin. But I don't get all snippy just because the don't make a DB9 in my price bracket. It reeks of being a spoiled brat, to me. Anyhow, here's a pic of a guy not wearing the obligatory white gloves AND actually taking photos with the 60. Shooting With Leica's Nutty No-Screen Camera Is Half Joy, Half Fantasy | Gizmodo Australia Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bideford Posted November 11, 2014 Share #15 Posted November 11, 2014 The M60 (like some other special editions) was intentionally designed to arouse, in various degrees, lust, surprise and envy... anything except indifference. The review merely shows to what extent this marketing plan has worked. Exactly. And they are actually very good at it. James 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted November 11, 2014 Share #16 Posted November 11, 2014 "But after only a few minutes of shooting, I was hooked. It really feels like you’re shooting with an analogue camera, limitations intact. Through the constraints of no screen and no settings, a freedom reveals itself that streamlines the experience to its joyful bare-essentials — shutter speed, aperture, focus. Nothing more. Added to this is the relief of knowing you are not wasting expensive film stock with each shot. It’s the best of both worlds". Good article. This kind of sums up my feelings... and it is probably the clearest writing on this subject yet. I have just bought an M240P and absolutely love it... but if a new Monochrome 240 becomes available in M60 type form next year or the year after, I'll buy one of those too... I doubt I'll ever need another camera after that... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 11, 2014 Share #17 Posted November 11, 2014 If Leica were to offer an M-P without a screen, (and not stainless, etc.) at a premium of $2000 more than an M, would there be talk about jealousy? There might be talk about the irrationality of a stripped-down model costing more than a fuller-featured one. I for one can ignore the LCD for free and use the $2000 for a lens or two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted November 12, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted November 12, 2014 Obviously the author is bitter, but he has reason to be. We all do... At the possible expense of being accused of lecturing, may I make the following observations. To those who are bitter at Leica for pricing this camera at $20,000 - may I gently suggest that a bit of growing up is in order. Anyone who owns any kind of a Leica camera is fortunate; many in this world do not own a camera of any kind. The fact is that many in this world live under a sheet of corrugated tin, sleep in the dirt on a sheet of cardboard and eat cockroaches in order to survive. If that's not you, count your blessings. It could have been you. I can understand jealousy but bitterness? The M-E is an excellent camera, why don't they use it? Still too expensive? Why don't they buy a mirrorless camera instead? We have neved had that many opportunities to use Leica lenses on 4/3, APS and FF bodies. Quit whining folks and enjoy photography. I'll second that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted November 12, 2014 Share #19 Posted November 12, 2014 The fact is that many in this world live under a sheet of corrugated tin, sleep in the dirt on a sheet of cardboard and eat cockroaches in order to survive. If that's not you, count your blessings. It could have been you. LOL Carlos, if I spent $20K on one camera it would be me. My (at that point ex-) wife would see to it 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted November 12, 2014 Share #20 Posted November 12, 2014 The M60 (like some other special editions) was intentionally designed to arouse, in various degrees, lust, surprise and envy... anything except indifference. The review merely shows to what extent this marketing plan has worked. I do lust, am surprised and envious when I look at the picture of M60.... however, I am totally indifferent to M60's existence while shooting with any of my cameras (M and other Japanese brands). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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