dem331 Posted October 27, 2014 Share #1 Posted October 27, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Some thoughts on the M-P: It is too sharp - 90% of my photos used to be sharp. Now less than 50% are critically sharp. I blow them up to 3:1 on my iMac to check, and suddenly I realise with dismay that a photo that looked really good is not critically sharp. Before I used to think it was the screen definition, now I know that it is not, since some look sharp when magnified to that level. I am working on my technique. It exposes the faults in my Noctilux -In line with the above, I used to be able to get what I thought were sharp pictures with the Noctilux, and now, even with the EVF the success rate has dropped by about 2/3. I now know what backfocus means, and see that the focus changes with the curvature of the lens (or whatever) My leica lenses are gathering dust - I bought the camera so that I could get FF on my lenses, but I can not convince myself to take my recently CLA'd 50mm summicron of the camera, I like it too much. So all my other lenses are paperweights right now, and the lens I paid least for (second hand) (other than a 90mm collapsible) is on the most expensive camera. It has made my iMac obsolete. I am taking too many pictures, have too many files. I have to change all the back office, hardware and procedures. It is putting my marriage at risk - I am spending hours in LR5 selecting, processing. My wife is not happy I am beginning to dislike colour photography - I made the mistake of listening to Overgaard's advice and started shooting DNG + JPEG fine B&W. I almost invariably prefer the B&W. Looking at colour is beginning to be off-putting. Should I have got an MM? And I insist on processing all the DNGs, I am not satisfied with the JPEGs. I am now thinking of getting SEP, when the last thing I need is to spend the little free time I have learning another software. GAS. I had gone 10 years without buying a camera bag or a Leica lens. Now I have bought a new Billingham since the Domke I have was a little bit too small for the M + EVF. The Domke sits with my other five or six camera bags in the store room. Now I am thinking of the macro elmar, of the WATE, of whether I want to keep the Noctilux and the 21 mm Elmarit. No plan at the moment, but I had not looked at the Leica listings in ebay for over 5 years, now I look at them 2 or 3 times a week -dangerous. There are others, but I will not bore you ........ 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 27, 2014 Posted October 27, 2014 Hi dem331, Take a look here Problems with my M-P 240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jip Posted October 27, 2014 Share #2 Posted October 27, 2014 So whats the problem exactly? Sounds like you underestimated the M240's imaging cmos sensor... it sees EVERYTHING, so also your tiny lack of accurate focus... which wouldn't be seen on the M8 or M9 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlinman Posted October 27, 2014 Share #3 Posted October 27, 2014 I had the similar problems: I spent more time with my camera, have lot more lenses, work more with LR5 and Silver Efex Pro, make a lot more BW, spent time in the LUF.... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted October 27, 2014 Share #4 Posted October 27, 2014 Want an advice? Don't do like me . Quit watching your pics on screen at 100% magnification. It's like viewing a painting through a loupe. Art is not made for that. Also, ultra shallow DoF is not natural. Getting one eye sharp, the other soft and the nose blurred is not natural. Forget how much you've spent for your Noctilux, shoot at f/2.8 when you can and enjoy. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted October 27, 2014 I think you are right lct. I am actually tending towards staying at f4 or f2.8 unless the light is very low. Results at f2 and higher can be spectacular, but tend to be too difficult to attain, specially with a moving object (a person). Fortunately the Noctilux was not my most expensive lens, I paid soemthing like 1200 US when the dollar was worth more than the Euro (second hand): Not a bad investment. Berlinman, we have the same issue, I just forgot to mention the LUF! As jip says, I underestimated the M's sensor. I was coming directly from an M6/ M8 and the difference is incredible. Must say though, I still prefer the M8s out of the camera colour rendition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted October 27, 2014 Share #6 Posted October 27, 2014 Enrique, I had a similar problem with my M and my Noctilux but after they had been calibrated at Solms I can again achieve pin-sharp focus. If you have not used your Noctilux on a digital Leica before your M-P then this may be the problem because digital sensors are a flat plane and show up tiny mis-focus that would be lost in the depth of a film's emulsion. Pete. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted October 27, 2014 Share #7 Posted October 27, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) One thing I have learned about the M240 is the need for fast shutter speeds to get sharp images. The old axiom with film was "if you are shooting with a 50mm lens, you need a shutter speed of 1/60 or faster to ensure a sharp photo." When shooting film, you should really double that - 1/125 or faster for a 50mm lens. With the M240, you have to have higher shutter speeds - a lot higher. For shooting hand held with a 50mm lens, I consider 1/125 to be the the bare minimum. 1/180 is much better and 1/250 is even better still (that's for hand held with no bracing against a solid object - "freehand shooting"). When I put the M240 on a monopod, I can get away with 1/60 with a 50mm lens. Three of my best slow shots on a monopod were with my Noctilux at f/1.0 and a shutter speed of 1/45 in a very dark environment. I usually shoot handheld, and I was astonished at how much of a difference the monopod made. This has been my experience - YMMV. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 27, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted October 27, 2014 Thanks Pete, I know you are right, it is probably somethnig I should do, although I am nit sure that I am going to persevere with the Nocti. Carlos, this has been my experience too. Sometimes I wonder whether i have not hit focus or if it is camera shake. I am tending to use much higher shutter speeds than before too. Kind of takes away ghe high ISO advantage, although the end results are better. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted October 27, 2014 Share #9 Posted October 27, 2014 One thing I have learned about the M240 is the need for fast shutter speeds to get sharp images. Not sure I agree on that one. I have perfectly sharp images I can count the eyelashes on 1/8 second. However, like dem331, I sometimes ask myself if I should have bought the Monochrom instead. I sometimes like a photo in color, but in the end they usually still get converted through SilverEfex. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamad Posted October 28, 2014 Share #10 Posted October 28, 2014 I would say get a 1.4X view finder magnifier. That will help you nail the focus. I use it all the time. It might look funny what i m saying after this: i sometimes use double , i use 1.4X and on top i screw 1.25X to really have a good focus accuracy. I shoot rallies and protests so something like this helps me in quick focusing. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 28, 2014 Share #11 Posted October 28, 2014 Some thoughts on the M-P: It is too sharp - 90% of my photos used to be sharp. Now less than 50% are critically sharp. I blow them up to 3:1 on my iMac to check, and suddenly I realise with dismay that a photo that looked really good is not critically sharp. Before I used to think it was the screen definition, now I know that it is not, since some look sharp when magnified to that level. I am working on my technique. It exposes the faults in my Noctilux -In line with the above, I used to be able to get what I thought were sharp pictures with the Noctilux, and now, even with the EVF the success rate has dropped by about 2/3. I now know what backfocus means, and see that the focus changes with the curvature of the lens (or whatever) My leica lenses are gathering dust - I bought the camera so that I could get FF on my lenses, but I can not convince myself to take my recently CLA'd 50mm summicron of the camera, I like it too much. So all my other lenses are paperweights right now, and the lens I paid least for (second hand) (other than a 90mm collapsible) is on the most expensive camera. It has made my iMac obsolete. I am taking too many pictures, have too many files. I have to change all the back office, hardware and procedures. It is putting my marriage at risk - I am spending hours in LR5 selecting, processing. My wife is not happy I am beginning to dislike colour photography - I made the mistake of listening to Overgaard's advice and started shooting DNG + JPEG fine B&W. I almost invariably prefer the B&W. Looking at colour is beginning to be off-putting. Should I have got an MM? And I insist on processing all the DNGs, I am not satisfied with the JPEGs. I am now thinking of getting SEP, when the last thing I need is to spend the little free time I have learning another software. GAS. I had gone 10 years without buying a camera bag or a Leica lens. Now I have bought a new Billingham since the Domke I have was a little bit too small for the M + EVF. The Domke sits with my other five or six camera bags in the store room. Now I am thinking of the macro elmar, of the WATE, of whether I want to keep the Noctilux and the 21 mm Elmarit. No plan at the moment, but I had not looked at the Leica listings in ebay for over 5 years, now I look at them 2 or 3 times a week -dangerous. There are others, but I will not bore you ........ You need to see a psychiatrist...NOW... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted October 28, 2014 You need to see a psychiatrist...NOW... Mark, you dont't know how right you are. I will start with with therapy, I think. By the way, how do I put an emoticon into the body of a meesage? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted October 28, 2014 I would say get a 1.4X view finder magnifier. That will help you nail the focus. I use it all the time. It might look funny what i m saying after this: i sometimes use double , i use 1.4X and on top i screw 1.25X to really have a good focus accuracy. I shoot rallies and protests so something like this helps me in quick focusing. I have the 1.25x, so I may try it. Does anyone know what distance contact lenses should be optimized for to focus a rangefider? There was a thread which touched on this but I did not really get to a conclusion. Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 28, 2014 Share #14 Posted October 28, 2014 Want an advice? Don't do like me . Quit watching your pics on screen at 100% magnification. It's like viewing a painting through a loupe. Art is not made for that. Also, ultra shallow DoF is not natural. Getting one eye sharp, the other soft and the nose blurred is not natural. Forget how much you've spent for your Noctilux, shoot at f/2.8 when you can and enjoy. Well said. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted October 28, 2014 Share #15 Posted October 28, 2014 Mark, you dont't know how right you are. I will start with with therapy, I think. By the way, how do I put an emoticon into the body of a meesage? Just click on any of the smilies to the left of the text box for your post. It will be placed at the site of the flashing cursor..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted October 28, 2014 But I don't have any, just have them below. There must be some option I have disabled. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted October 28, 2014 Author Share #17 Posted October 28, 2014 OK, I found them. Had to change the basic editor interface to full in the settings menu. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted October 28, 2014 Share #18 Posted October 28, 2014 Not sure I agree on that one. I have perfectly sharp images I can count the eyelashes on 1/8 second. However, like dem331, I sometimes ask myself if I should have bought the Monochrom instead. I sometimes like a photo in color, but in the end they usually still get converted through SilverEfex. I agree ....... I don't think Enrique's problems are shake related and I think Carlos's advice is over-cautious ....... the M240 is no more critical than the M9 ...... and the added weight and softer shutter more than counteract the additional resolution. With a 50mm lens I regularly use 1/30 without problems ..... and as you say 1/8 is possible with care and/or resting againts a door/wall etc. However lens and RF calibration is critical .... especially with finicky lenses wide open like the Noctilux where only careful adjustment will avoid focus shift issues between 0.95/1.0 and 2/2.8 ...... and I have a 1.35x variable dioptre magnifier permanently on all my M series bodies ........ and use LV on 28 and below. The variable dioptre adjustment allows you to get it adjusted to your vision exactly .... which helps a lot ..... and of course practice and familiarity counts an enormous amount. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted October 28, 2014 Share #19 Posted October 28, 2014 I find the added weight does have a negative affect on my hand holding due to muscle fatigue. It's a combination of the increased weight and the thumb wheel which has changed the way I used to grip the M9 and M8, causing me to grip the M240 tighter which then leads to quicker muscle fatigue. (It's minor though, as the brunt of the weight of the camera is borne in my left palm as it always was). As for the shutter, the M8 and M9's jolt and noise takes place after the shutter trips, so I don't think it ever caused me any image blur. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted October 28, 2014 Share #20 Posted October 28, 2014 Critical sharpness isn't easy with higher megapixel cameras. What is odder is that 24mp is towards the lower end for megapixels vs. a trend of 36mp from the "handheld" sony, nikon fleet. I find a large number of my M240 shots drift in and out of perfection across the frame, but this is, as discussed above, a function of blowing the image up to 100% on screen. Whilst the M is designed for handheld use, for critical work or when I want to enlarge big, there is absolutely no substitute for bolting it to a good carbon fibre tripod / good tripod head / good camera plate like an RRS. Otherwise, I think one throws a lot of the sharpness potential out the door. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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