Jump to content

Should I reconsider?


Aros62

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello!

Over the past fifteen years I have wept in yearning to own a Leica camera. Now that the economy is in order (for me, anyway :)) it actually feels like it could be a realititet (jippie!). And for that reason I have joined this forum since a few days back.

 

BUT when I read about Leica's new flagship, the Leica M 240, here on the forum, I have to say I am a bit surprised. A camera in this price range should obviously be flawless and should not leak light between the lens and camera body (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/314052-risked-life-limb-get-shot-7000-a.html) and threre should not be parts become loose inside the camera (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/312320-parts-dropping-out-my-m240.html). And it should not take several weeks for Leica to solve these embarrassing faults.

 

Is it just me or is there reason to reconsider my choice?

 

Thanks,

Link to post
Share on other sites

High price does not always equate with perfect quality (control). In this case it reflects low volume, higher then usual labor costs and very high quality materials. The (mostly) German engineering is excellent, but what you are buying into is more of a timeless experience. Don't expect perfection. Do expect elegant simplicity, unmatched "feel", the rangefinder experience (has it's good and bad points if you are coming from SLR) and... most importantly.... amazing images when you get it all right.

 

It's hard to find an analogy, but think E-type Jaguar as opposed to Tesla.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello!

Over the past fifteen years I have wept in yearning to own a Leica camera. Now that the economy is in order (for me, anyway :)) it actually feels like it could be a realititet (jippie!). And for that reason I have joined this forum since a few days back.

 

BUT when I read about Leica's new flagship, the Leica M 240, here on the forum, I have to say I am a bit surprised. A camera in this price range should obviously be flawless and should not leak light between the lens and camera body (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/314052-risked-life-limb-get-shot-7000-a.html) and threre should not be parts become loose inside the camera (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/312320-parts-dropping-out-my-m240.html). And it should not take several weeks for Leica to solve these embarrassing faults.

 

Is it just me or is there reason to reconsider my choice?

 

Thanks,

 

I'm in the same place. Simply and purify. Dump the trappings of shooting speed (FPS) and tons of equipment; move back to my RF roots and buy the M or really get serious and buy the MM and two great hunks of glass. Joined the forum today and learn that users seem to accept really serious issues IE: light leaks and multiple repairs during the warranty period as part of the "experience."

 

I think I would come unglued if a new $8000 body had light leaks and my 30 year old bellows, bought used, still doesn't. Thinking twice might be right, considering the investment.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Are you REALLY in a habit of taking 30 seconds exposures in bright sunlight? If so, borrowing your wife’s hair scrunchie appears to be a small price to pay for sixty -or even ninety- years of retrocompatability of lenses…..:rolleyes:

And if you base buying decisions on complaints threads in Internet forums - any forums, you will save a load of money. And miss a lot of fun.

Edited by jaapv
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello!

Over the past fifteen years I have wept in yearning to own a Leica camera. Now that the economy is in order (for me, anyway :)) it actually feels like it could be a realititet (jippie!). And for that reason I have joined this forum since a few days back.

 

BUT when I read about Leica's new flagship, the Leica M 240, here on the forum, I have to say I am a bit surprised. A camera in this price range should obviously be flawless and should not leak light between the lens and camera body (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/314052-risked-life-limb-get-shot-7000-a.html) and threre should not be parts become loose inside the camera (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/312320-parts-dropping-out-my-m240.html). And it should not take several weeks for Leica to solve these embarrassing faults.

 

Is it just me or is there reason to reconsider my choice?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Welcome to the forum. There are plenty of happy Leica users around, and as with any technology there are always going to be some users who are not happy with the product, whether it be due to a technical fault, or an unfulfilled expectation. The internet only serves to amplify these discomforts. Personally I started using Leica one year ago, and am really enjoying the experience, yes, the camera is not as technologically advanced as my Nikon DSLR, but it makes up for this in terms of practicality and portability, and in terms of the quality of the images that I can produce, which after all is the end goal we should all have. I've hardly used my Nikon since buying my Leica, but I'm not going to sell it (yet), as I appreciate there are still some things that I can't achieve with my Leica (for example long telephoto wildlife work, or high speed action photography, although I'm sure some would disagree).

 

If you can afford it, why not make the jump. Yes, it's a lot of money, but Leica holds it's value pretty well, and you can always sell it with a minimum loss if you really don't get along with it....

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello!

Over the past fifteen years I have wept in yearning to own a Leica camera. Now that the economy is in order (for me, anyway :)) it actually feels like it could be a realititet (jippie!).

 

Maybe try a Leica before you buy.

Edited by redge
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello!

Over the past fifteen years I have wept in yearning to own a Leica camera. Now that the economy is in order (for me, anyway :)) it actually feels like it could be a realititet (jippie!). And for that reason I have joined this forum since a few days back.

 

BUT when I read about Leica's new flagship, the Leica M 240, here on the forum, I have to say I am a bit surprised. A camera in this price range should obviously be flawless and should not leak light between the lens and camera body (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/314052-risked-life-limb-get-shot-7000-a.html) and threre should not be parts become loose inside the camera (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/312320-parts-dropping-out-my-m240.html). And it should not take several weeks for Leica to solve these embarrassing faults.

 

Is it just me or is there reason to reconsider my choice?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Hello and welcome to this forum :)

 

I can totally relate to your post as I had similar thoughts going through my mind before buying my M earlier this year ... which is also my first rangefinder Leica. As you surely know Leica cameras and lenses are very special and in many ways different from other cameras money can buy. I also assume that you have a clear idea why you want a Leica in the first place and its a good idea to visit a Leica shop and simply try the camera so you can be more certain it does what you hope it will do for you.

 

As far as the posts are concerned that you are referring to and which are making you wonder if getting yourself your dream camera is the right thing I would just like to say that my own experience with my M is absolutely flawless. I've experienced NONE of these problems.

 

I'm intrigued how fantastic the camera works and behaves and I enjoy the touch and feel of it which is in a class of its own. And the results speak for themselves anyhow as numerous people will testify.

 

However, no matter how much money you spend on a car or a watch or in this case a camera you cannot be guaranteed that the specific item you buy is always 100 % perfect and Leica's are no exception.

 

But again from my own experience - the Leica M is the most enjoyable camera I've ever bought. I'm totally happy and - fortunately - don't have a clue what the other forum members that had negative experiences are talking about ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum. If you expect to get a flawless camera you should indeed reconsider your choice. But if you want a Leica...

 

So, which camera on the market is flawless?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree it must be a little off-putting for a prospective purchaser to read some of the quality control issues reported on this forum and elsewhere. I'm not sure I'd have 100% confidence in buying a new Leica body or lens TBH.

 

But, you only tend to hear of the problem cases, naturally, not the presumably much greater number of faultless Leica products that are out there being used happily.

 

At least you're informed and aware of what could be potential issues. Should you reconsider? Not if you want a FF digital rangefinder camera, because there is only Leica!

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I'm the guy who had parts dropping out of my M240 and I'm also one of the LUF members that has experienced the so called light-leak issue. Let's take each of these issues separately for a moment and put them in perspective.

 

The part that dropped out was most likely a result of sloppy repair work at Leica NJ. The camera was in for a rangefinder alignment and shortly after it was returned an adjustment screw came loose, jammed my lens and fell out when I removed the lens. Sure, the rangefinder needed adjustment when I got the camera and I admit I think Leica could/should improve their QC. It shouldn't happen on this camera, but let's face it, the rangefinder mechanism is a precision instrument that can get knocked out of alignment. It happens with my Zeiss Ikon RF (just returned from a trip to Germany for RF repair)and with my Mamiya 6. For me it kind of goes with the territory with an RF. Leica took care of it on warranty is less time than it takes Canon to fix my DSLRs when they get sent it... And, yes, sh#t happens to my Canons too.... And my BMW... And my Porsche... And... Oh, let's not even talk about my wife's Audi. Well you get the point. And, I had an M9 for 2 years, 12,000+ shots and not one trip to NJ.

 

The light-leak issue is really a non issue. It is the resultant artifact of a 50 year old lens mount design and it affects an image in the very limited circumstance of long exposures (20s +) in bright light. Further, it is easily (and inexpensively) rectified for those instances where you want to take such an exposure.

 

On the other hand, the M240 is a beautiful instrument that delivers really outstanding image quality in a compact package and allows one to shoot a digital rangefinder with the entire arsenal of M lenses from over the years. It's damn expensive and it's clearly not worth it for everybody, but obviously I've decided it is for me.

 

I have an arsenal of Canon bodies and lenses, a Nex 6, a Zeiss Ikon, a Mamiya 6 and more. But whenever I go shooting the default is always the M. If I need autofocus, or need to shoot sports or action, or need/want film, I will choose another option. Otherwise it's the M for the combination of IQ, size, lens choice, rangefinder speed and certainty.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps have a play around in the shop... But I say go for it. I highly doubt you'll regret it...

The main problems you are likely to encounter is sensor dust (for which it may require a professional clean after shipping to you) or rangefinder calibration.

Both if these you should be aware of, but don't be put off.

If you go ahead, which I think you should, you could always sell it for almost all of what you paid. So the risk is small.

If you are starting out, I'd suggest shooting with a Summicron or Summarit. Since these have slower apertures they demand less of the rangefinder precision and ability of the (new) rangefinder user...

They are also the best value.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Bad news gets more coverage than good, just turn on the TV, it's the same here.

Do not get put off.

 

The forum is also a place to discuss issues, reassure each other, have a whinge, and solve problems.

 

As I posted in the light-leak thread this probelms only seen when pushing equipment to the extreme (long exposures in bright sunlight with x10ND filters and there is an easy fix. Reading the whole thread you would see that many cameras have light leaks atht e mlens mount flange - we Leica users just seem to expect that our equipment was signed off by our respective Deity and is faultless :rolleyes:.

 

Buy an expensive car, audiophile sound system, $50K watch, etc.

Are they flawless?

Of course not.

 

I have no regrets about buying any of my Leica equipment except that I wish I'd bought into the M-system earlier

Edited by MarkP
Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, thank you very much for your very interesting contribution on the issue. Somewhere, I realize that no matter what my next camera must be a Leica camera, I simply can not end a rich photo life without getting to know an icon as the Leica. I also understand that Leica is a lifestyle and therefore the tolerance for this camera system is much higher than normal. And that is how it should be.

 

Thanks,

Link to post
Share on other sites

High price does not always equate with perfect quality (control). In this case it reflects low volume, higher then usual labor costs and very high quality materials. The (mostly) German engineering is excellent, but what you are buying into is more of a timeless experience. Don't expect perfection. Do expect elegant simplicity, unmatched "feel", the rangefinder experience (has it's good and bad points if you are coming from SLR) and... most importantly.... amazing images when you get it all right.

 

It's hard to find an analogy, but think E-type Jaguar as opposed to Tesla.

 

That is such a good analogy! So true.

 

I've just switched from DSLR, I don't have any regrets. The camera is extremely light by comparison, sure you need to get used to manual focus, but its such a nice tool. Just be sure its the right solution for your type of photography. I mainly took portraits, landscapes and street type photography. Therefore, I wouldn't miss the telephoto end. The M system isn't ideal for tele type work (though the EVF helps).

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, which camera on the market is flawless?

 

Holgas, typically... :cool: less features=less flaws.

 

I still have a "Holga-like" of the sixties (Ferrania Eura) 6x6 1 speed shutter 2 diaphragms.. was even left en plen air for some days&nights... absolutely flawless, still operative... by contrast, my TLR Lubitel 66 of 1974 soon flawed in the coupling of focusing and taking lens... :rolleyes:

Edited by luigi bertolotti
Link to post
Share on other sites

That is such a good analogy! So true.

 

I've just switched from DSLR, I don't have any regrets. The camera is extremely light by comparison, sure you need to get used to manual focus, but its such a nice tool. Just be sure its the right solution for your type of photography. I mainly took portraits, landscapes and street type photography. Therefore, I wouldn't miss the telephoto end. The M system isn't ideal for tele type work (though the EVF helps).

 

As a newbee concerning rangefinder cameras myself (having got my M 240 in august 2013) I do absolutely agree with you. I wouldn't want to miss its smallness and lightweight when shooting "street" but wouldn't want to do without my Pentax K5 with macro lens albeit I'm still trying to master the "Leica way" to focus...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...