IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Share #1 Posted October 21, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) The discussion of the Sony A7 has raised a couple of questions, leaving aside the desire for an EVIL from Leica - what has kept Leica M owners from buying the M(240)? and what would existing M(240) owners want in the next version? I appreciate that the next M is probably well into prototyping, but let's assume that Leica will read this, and can or will take notice (fat chance, but humour me). To my mind, we disregard the PanaLeica's for what they are, that leaves the benighted X2 and XV, M cameras and S cameras. I'm not really a fan of the X2 & X-Vario, but Jono tells me they're good cameras, so perhaps they can stay where they are subject to normal upgrades. I would like to see the S and M cameras justify their premium prices, and Leica to wake up from its slumbering, find a bit of bravery and make an EVIL. But that's not the point of this thread. I am not a buyer of the M(240). What would I want to buy the next iteration? the colour issues of the sensor, AWB and profiles resolved one (the correct) frameline for the lens attached to the camera - how hard could it possibly be? Each lens is coded - read the codes. It can be electronic anyway. the ability to move the focal point when focusing using the EVF either an optical view finder or electronic viewfinder - I don't like the clip on job on the top, but if that's the only solution, at least make it a good one, with the ability to upgrade it. I do like the optical rangefinder, but if you need to use an EVF, I'd rather it was built in. The benefit of the clip on EVF is that you can take it off if you don't want it. But that assumes Leica will upgrade it (we know what happened there - the next version wasn't compatible). I like having a dial for ISO or exposure compensation I'm not too bothered by the 14-24-36 MP sensor options. More megapixels are great, provided they give real advantage high ISO doesn't bother me improved dynamic range would be good What I really want is a camera which preserves the purity of my M9 and takes wonderful pictures with my fabulous Leica lenses with minimal fucking about with profiles, adjustments and other technical difficulties. The M9 does that for me. But, as we are talking about electronics, I want the best, latest and greatest for that minimal form - we are paying a fortune for the Leica name, so I want the best, and I want Leica to stand by it for so long as I, my children and my grandchildren want to use the camera. The lenses will still be good then, so make a camera you can fix, and then make sure you have the bits to fix it. The (environmental) future lies not in disposable products, but using, fixing, maintaing and upgrading products. Leica could go back to its origins and actually innovate and take a lead. It wasn't the M5 that got Leica into trouble - it was their complacency over the rangefinder - a complacency they seem not to have shaken off. Anyone else? Cheers John 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 21, 2013 Posted October 21, 2013 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here What do you want in the next digital M?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted October 21, 2013 Share #2 Posted October 21, 2013 Why the unnecessary use of the f-word? 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted October 21, 2013 Share #3 Posted October 21, 2013 Why the unnecessary use of the f-word? As you will notice the Sony has a DMF (Dumb Mother Fucker) and MF (Mother Fucker) choice. I think that is why. I haven't figured out what the AF stands for. Apart from that, I don't like the f-word used in writing, thought it is much less political incorrect in Europe (where most people will use the f-word about anything without causing the stir that it does if used in the US for example). 13 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reprobit Posted October 21, 2013 Share #4 Posted October 21, 2013 "The (environmental) future lies not in disposable products, but using, fixing, maintaing and upgrading products. Leica could go back to its origins and actually innovate and take a lead. It wasn't the M5 that got Leica into trouble - it was their complacency over the rangefinder - a complacency they seem not to have shaken off." f agree John 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tanks Posted October 21, 2013 Share #5 Posted October 21, 2013 "The (environmental) future lies not in disposable products, but using, fixing, maintaing and upgrading products.... That is not a viable business model, planned obsolescence is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2013 That is not a viable business model, planned obsolescence is. Assuming attitudes don't change towards greed, corruption, selfishness, I agree. But I'm hoping they will..... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest borge Posted October 21, 2013 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) I want the Movie button either removed or to be programmable so that I can use it for something useful. For example: Hold the M button in and use the scroll wheel to change ISO values. Changing ISO's would be a one-handed operation then. Also, a built-in mapping feature to map out bad/hot pixels would also be nice. Sending the camera back to Solms just to get one pixel mapped is a waste of time for everyone, and it shouldn't have to be necessary since the mapping is done in software anyway. And third, and most importantly, an option to move the focusing box around when using Live View or the EVF for precise focus when shooting details wide open with a fast lens. Focusing and re-composing is a big no-no in these cases, and even with the EVF/LV you have to focus and re-compose today... This should be a very easy fix and I hope a future firmware update addresses this. Other than that, I love the M240 with the latest firmware. Edited October 21, 2013 by borge Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfhrased Posted October 21, 2013 Share #8 Posted October 21, 2013 I prefer the more .. clean, mechanical sort of feel my M9-P has, as well as the sensor output (I primarily shoot base ISO). I suspect I'd rather have the A7R than the M 240 for the sensor - but I've always sort of suspected I'd want the camera after the 240. We'll see I guess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sarav Posted October 21, 2013 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2013 To me there aren't problems or disadventages. Maybe a little thinner body. AWB I'll set in LR everytime and so correct or not to me is not a problem, selectable focus-point or else are CaNikon's properties and, to me, absolutely unnecessary to my way of taking pictures. Leica M (240) is the best Digital Leica ever. Solid, very good high ISO, marvellous image quality, very very good dynamic range, shutter-noise is low and fast. What do you need anymore? As I've already written above, a little thinner body and we'll have the perfect Leica M ever since decades. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted October 21, 2013 Share #10 Posted October 21, 2013 Honestly, I've changed my mind as a result of the A7R release. My perfect Leica body would be. - 24MP (can take more, not fussed though) - High ISO ability of M240 but without banding and green cast - MP sized. - No LV or EVF - External ISO where the film rewind is on the MP - 'Feel' of the MP - Shutter sound of M240 - One frameline at a time - No red dot, no top body script. And I would like one in silver, with a colour sensor, and one in Black paint, with a monochrome sensor. These two bodies and my 3 lenses and I'm a happy camper. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted October 21, 2013 Share #11 Posted October 21, 2013 (edited) The colour issues of the sensor, AWB and profiles resolved - Leica had best be working on this NOW. One (the correct) frameline for the lens attached to the camera - how hard could it possibly be? Oddly, this poses no issue for me. I don't like the clip on job on the top... I do because it keeps things small and simple and in line with all other M's and I can live without it. I like having a dial for ISO or exposure compensation. Yes. Is not the top plate cluttered enough? I'm not too bothered by the 14-24-36 MP sensor options. Buyers typically are. High ISO doesn't bother me. Buy a prime f1.4, that's why we own these cameras after all. A bulb setting that does what it says on the can, not the joke on the M240. An S mode that works so I don't have to leave the camera in C mode. Smaller and lighter? And finally, a company who says it makes cameras, but then doesn't sell them, or their accessories deserves to be bought out, and the management given their P45's. The dealers are probably sick and tired of telling prospective new and existing customers they have no cameras for sale and none on the horizon, no grips etc etc. A company who had a management structure and sales driven policy allied to quality of product and innovation. As you say, no one at Leica will ever hear any of this. (Sticks fingers in German ears, "LalaLaLaLa, I am not listening LalaLaLaLa" repeat) Edited October 21, 2013 by Gilgamesh 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotofanatiker Posted October 21, 2013 Share #12 Posted October 21, 2013 IBIS would be nice (and without a fatter body would be even nicer...) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share #13 Posted October 21, 2013 Why the unnecessary use of the f-word? I apologise if you're offended. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted October 21, 2013 Share #14 Posted October 21, 2013 Give me a camera that is capable as the M9 and M and make it 40MP (a real 40MP), let it also shoot 24MP (for those that don't want 40), make the EVF a hybrid design similar to Fuji's, or at least make the current design upgradable (I'm not so fussed about this one), and you may never hear another peep out of me again. Promise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted October 21, 2013 Share #15 Posted October 21, 2013 I want (in decreasing order of urgency): faster start-up time faster start-up time faster start-up time 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gilgamesh Posted October 21, 2013 Share #16 Posted October 21, 2013 Sarav. "To me there aren't problems or disadventages." (edit: disadvantages) I assume this is your fist ever camera? Get real! Start taking pictures for a living with these digital Leica camera and then come back, later, better prepared. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted October 21, 2013 Share #17 Posted October 21, 2013 What I would like is "The ability to walk into a store and buy at launch" experience. As far as features go, I believe I have not yet hit the limit of any feature on my M9 without major regrets. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mirekti Posted October 21, 2013 Share #18 Posted October 21, 2013 I imagine this will happen in three, four years time. Given the fact the technology is beeing developed constantly by the time mentioned these should be implemented: Hybrid VF Sensor image stabilization A bit smaller body, but not too much. 36 MP should be maximum, fine with 24MP as well. 2-3 more stops in ISO and higher dynamic range Faster startup time Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted October 21, 2013 Share #19 Posted October 21, 2013 1. Dedicated ISO button 2. Dedicated A-compensation button 3. ISO settings showing (even when camera is off) 4. A-compensation showing (even when camera is off) 5. Programmable quick format button 6. To create user defined lens profiles 7. Bulb exposure 8. Faster start-up time 9. Auto sensor cleaning 10. To disable everything that has to do with movie. Button, menus, etc 11. External EVF Aside from this I find it hard to believe that Leica will not be forced to create a M-mount with electronic contacts, and a corresponding new M-E lens series. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emile de Leon Posted October 21, 2013 Share #20 Posted October 21, 2013 Smaller..w/fully articulated viewing screen.. And...reliable.. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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