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Old 09/02/13, 12:38   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Chris,
this is a very interesting picture showing the potential of the new sensor, actually to me it seems that is underexposed, may be by one stop or even more. If you convert it to black and white then it becomes even more obvious. How was it recorded, in auto mode or manually? In principle by using exposure correction by 1, 2 ore even 3 stops effective ISO settings up 51200 coulid be achieved. Have you tried that?

Thomas
Thomas - I was working in manual mode using the SPOT metering option on the M9. I would have been exposing for the face and letting the rest of the scene go where it needed to - if this meant the blacks were clipping, I wasn't overly concerned - it was a very dark setting! I'm interested that you feel it was under-exposed. If I'd allowed longer exposure the overall values for the shadow would have been wrong for the account of the scene I wanted to give - and highlights would have been badly blown. Below is how it looks on my system (with WB adjusted, but no adjustment to exposure other than the defaults I work with on import). I'v e done a second shot to show the EXIF - interesting that LR picks up the metering mode from the 240
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Old 09/02/13, 13:36   #62 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Thomas - I was working in manual mode using the SPOT metering option on the M9.

Chris,

thanks a lot for your explanation, sorry, the qoute in my question was too short, I was referring to another picture.

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Originally Posted by chris_tribble View Post
1. this was taken with a prototype body - later iterations will do a better job I'm sure
2. I understand it Leica view 6400 as a PUSH option on the M240.

Will I use it in the future - YES! My experience so far has been that for many REALLY low light situations it works very well, though correct exposure is critical.

Would I have used it in the case of the shot of the Houses of Parliament from Waterloo bridge that you comment? NO. It wasn't actually necessary. Under normal circumstances I'd have used 800 or 1600 and a tripod. Even 3200 hand held would have been OK. I was playing with what I could get at 6400 and this is one of the images that Leica chose to post.

The original image has a huge tonal range (http://cdn.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...2/l1000857.jpg) so it's not a bad test of the sensor's capacity.
So in essence, what I was trying to ask, this picture seems to be correspond to a shot at significant lower settings than 6400, but the dark parts are still look very good. That's why I was asking the question whether you have tried playing with exposure correction in order the simulate ISO settings higher than 6400.

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Old 09/02/13, 14:18   #63 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Chris,

thanks a lot for your explanation, sorry, the qoute in my question was too short, I was referring to another picture.



So in essence, what I was trying to ask, this picture seems to be correspond to a shot at significant lower settings than 6400, but the dark parts are still look very good. That's why I was asking the question whether you have tried playing with exposure correction in order the simulate ISO settings higher than 6400.

Thomas
Ah - looking at this one, the original was slightly OVER exposed. Original and the correction I posted below. I hope this clarifies - and YES - the file has tremendous latitude in my experience. HOWEVER - PLEASE REMEMBER THIS WAS SHOT AT ISO 400

BTW - someone mentioned that they couldn't get a strong 3D sense from the image - I'm not surprised. Telephoto lenses flatten perspective...
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Old 09/02/13, 14:22   #64 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Jono, thanks.

Much as I feared, but really didn't want confirmed. Damn, could be a deal breaker.

I wonder if this could change with a firmware update?

Best

Keith
HI Keith
I felt the same way - but I have to say that in practice I like the magnifier implementation better than any other camera I've used - it's going back to focus and recompose, but it just works very well. Shooting with the EVF is really not for action shots anyway, and my feeling is that it works better like this (I always find the zoom point is the wrong one on my OMD!).

I had some discussion about it with Leica, and I think that it's a real feature of the sensor - not something they can just add to firmware later.

The focus peaking is less sizzly than the NEX.

All I can say is don't knock it until you've tried it!

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Old 09/02/13, 14:38   #65 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Ah - looking at this one, the original was slightly OVER exposed. Original and the correction I posted below. I hope this clarifies - and YES - the file has tremendous latitude in my experience. HOWEVER - PLEASE REMEMBER THIS WAS SHOT AT ISO 400

..
Chris,

sorry, now we have complete confusion, I was referring to the picture with the dark sky, the moon and the milenium dome taken at 6400 ASA:

http://cdn.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...2/l1000857.jpg


Is it taken with the spot mode?
In essence, what I was trying to ask, this picture seems to be correspond to a shot at significant lower settings than 6400, but the dark parts are still look very good. That's why I was asking the question whether you have tried playing with exposure correction in order the simulate ISO settings higher than 6400.

Thomas
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Old 09/02/13, 15:01   #66 (permalink)
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Lächeln Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

If one watches the image of St. Paul Cathedral on the APPLE McPro 15" with Retina display, all the nuisances can be percieved. It's not so "flat".

However, by comparing pictures taken by M9 and M-240 (from the work of Mr. Jean Gaumy), those of M-240 obviously more flat than M9, although color rendering is beautiful.

As a user of M8, I am considering to get a M-240 and will appreciate if Leica improves the firmware of M-240 so that its IQ can be comparable to M8.
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Old 09/02/13, 15:46   #67 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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As a user of M8, I am considering to get a M-240 and will appreciate if Leica improves the firmware of M-240 so that its IQ can be comparable to M8.
Ah, well, I think we can already assume the IQ of the M-240 exceeds that of the M8, Thomas.

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Old 09/02/13, 16:00   #68 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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[font=Verdana]If one watches the image of St. Paul Cathedral on the APPLE McPro 15" with Retina display, all the nuisances can be percieved.
Wonderful It looks like Apple have been helping you with your spelling!

At least, I suspect you meant Nuances?

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Old 09/02/13, 19:05   #69 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

Jono / Chris --- with regards to the live magnification being limited to the central area, has Leica explained why? This is a big limitation in terms of off-center compositions, moving around the magnification area to check wide angle focus, etc. This limitation puzzles me, maybe it's one of the "to do" items on their punch list?
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Old 09/02/13, 19:16   #70 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Jono / Chris --- with regards to the live magnification being limited to the central area, has Leica explained why? This is a big limitation in terms of off-center compositions, moving around the magnification area to check wide angle focus, etc. This limitation puzzles me, maybe it's one of the "to do" items on their punch list?
HI John
I asked, and I was told that it was simply not possible with the hardware - don't know why (I might ask sometime). Honest though - it's not an issue, it works so nicely.

point camera at what you want to focus on - focus on it
half press shutter zooms out to show whole frame . . . reframe and shoot.
What's even nicer, is that if you keep the shutter half pressed, then it holds the exposure for the zoomed in area rather than the image as a whole.

In true Leica fashion it's very simple, without bells and whistles and it simply works.

I honestly find it easier than picking an area for focusing - the only time I can see it would be irritating is on a tripod.

all the best
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Old 09/02/13, 19:31   #71 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Hi Jono,

Thanks. I agree with your description.
However, on tripod is where the missing feature would be really helpful.
Oh well, I can always use the OMD, also for extra reach.
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Old 09/02/13, 19:34   #72 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Hi Jono,

Thanks. I agree with your description.
However, on tripod is where the missing feature would be really helpful.
Oh well, I can always use the OMD, also for extra reach.
KH - I do agree, for tripod it's an issue - but I suppose we live in an imperfect world
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Old 09/02/13, 19:53   #73 (permalink)
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Default Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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I honestly find it easier than picking an area for focusing - the only time I can see it would be irritating is on a tripod.
Thanks, Jono, but that's the problem, 99.99% of the time I work from a tripod.

Such a pity, the M ticked so many of the other boxes.

All the best

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Old 09/02/13, 20:13   #74 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Ah - looking at this one, the original was slightly OVER exposed. Original and the correction I posted below. I hope this clarifies - and YES - the file has tremendous latitude in my experience. HOWEVER - PLEASE REMEMBER THIS WAS SHOT AT ISO 400

BTW - someone mentioned that they couldn't get a strong 3D sense from the image - I'm not surprised. Telephoto lenses flatten perspective...
Chris,

sorry for the confusion, may I ask my question again. I was referring to the picture with the dark sky, the moon and the milenium dome taken at 6400 ASA:

http://cdn.l-camera-forum.com/leica-...2/l1000857.jpg


Is it taken with the spot mode?
In essence, what I was trying to ask, this picture seems to be correspond to a shot at significant lower settings than 6400, but the dark parts are still look very good. That's why I was asking the question whether you have tried playing with exposure correction in order the simulate ISO settings higher than 6400.

Thomas
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Old 09/02/13, 20:53   #75 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

What an epic!

Thomas - you're right - it was way over exposed. re metering, I was in classic mode (centre weighted averaging). I pulled the exposure back over 1.5 stops in the version I posted.

Hope this clarifies things!

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Old 09/02/13, 21:20   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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That's why I was asking the question whether you have tried playing with exposure correction in order the simulate ISO settings higher than 6400.

Thomas
Thomas, may I ask what do you mean by simulating ISO setting, or achieving high ISO via exposure correction (compensation?) What do you think the exposure compensation does? Do you mean it is kind of amplifying the signal, or what? To my knowledge (for M9 at least) it is simply affecting the shutter speed in A mode.
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Old 09/02/13, 21:23   #77 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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What an epic!

Thomas - you're right - it was way over exposed. re metering, I was in classic mode (centre weighted averaging). I pulled the exposure back over 1.5 stops in the version I posted.

Hope this clarifies things!

Chris, thanks a lot!

Thomas
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Old 09/02/13, 21:55   #78 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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Thomas, may I ask what do you mean by simulating ISO setting, or achieving high ISO via exposure correction (compensation?) What do you think the exposure compensation does? Do you mean it is kind of amplifying the signal, or what? To my knowledge (for M9 at least) it is simply affecting the shutter speed in A mode.
As you wrote, exposure compensation affects the shutter speed, if I set ISO to 2500 and use -2 stops exposure compensation it is effective 10000 ISO, for the M9 I tried it it works but the results are not convincing.

Thomas
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Old 09/02/13, 22:08   #79 (permalink)
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Default AW: Re: M240 image of London by Christopher Tribble

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with regards to the live magnification being limited to the central area, has Leica explained why?
The answer was that it is just not possible to process the entire image at the required speed so that one could freely choose the part of the image to be displayed. I have to admit, though, that I don’t fully understand this – I would have thought one could select an arbitrary ‘window’ of sensor pixels for read-out, so regardless of the position of that window the number of pixels to be processed would be the same. Apparently I am overlooking some limitation.
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Old 09/02/13, 22:37   #80 (permalink)
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The answer was that it is just not possible to process the entire image at the required speed so that one could freely choose the part of the image to be displayed. I have to admit, though, that I don’t fully understand this – I would have thought one could select an arbitrary ‘window’ of sensor pixels for read-out, so regardless of the position of that window the number of pixels to be processed would be the same. Apparently I am overlooking some limitation.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't.
That would be interesting to find out though.

Also, what's the reason for the 30 Hz EVF rate?
Thanks.
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