35 Summicron Asph vs 35 Summilux Asph (pre-FLE)

[roelandinho]

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Hello to all,

 

Recently I purchased a used M8 with two 35mm lenses: a used Summilux Asph (pre-FLE) and a brand new Summicron Asph. My plan is to use them both for a while and keep my favourite one, but it seems like this will be a hard decision. As of today, there is no clear winner yet. I will probably use the M8 until it stops working, after that I'll upgrade to a used full frame M (the M9 or M240, depending on used prices at that time).

 

I made a list of relevant points below. What are your thoughts? Which one would you keep?

 

## Summicron pros

- brand new lens, perfect condition (summilux shows signs of use, aperture ring rattles a bit, little bit of dust in the glass)

- 2 years of warranty

- smaller & lighter than the summilux

- 6-bit coded

- UV/IR filter (can't use one on the lux because that lens is not coded)

- I will certainly lose money when I sell this one (because bought new)

 

## Summilux pros

- f/1.4 is a big plus with the M8 because of the limited high ISO capability

- there seems to be some magic at f/1.4, in part (but not only) because of shallow DOF

- from f/2, performance is close to the Summicron, with a bit lower contrast

 

## About Focus shift:

both the Summilux and Summicron seem to be optimized for perfect focus at f/2, and focus shift between the two lenses is comparable:

at f/1.4, I need to *very* slightly back-focus the Summilux to get perfect focus (usually I don't worry about it)

at f/2.0, both focus perfectly

at f/2.8, *very* slight front-focus is needed (as the focus plane moves slightly backwards)

at f/4 and f/5.6, slight front-focus is needed

 

After thoroughly testing this and some practice, this doesn't really bother me.

[Antonio Russell]

Nice to meet a fellow OCD sufferer :-)

 

I guess at the end of the day its a personal choice. As you point out each have their pros and cons. The Summicron ASPH has been on my wish list for some time. You are very lucky to be able to chose between the two.

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[microview]

A long time since I had an M8, but isn't there a menu item for manual selection of non-coded lenses? I thought the filter was essential for any lens with that camera. Seems sensible to keep both until you go for a later camera, then rethink the situation and your preferences. M would allow EVF live view to obviate focus problems.

[Stein K S]

Hi

I do not have any experience with the Cron 35 asph. However, what I would like to say is that the Lux 35 pre-FLE is my #1 lens concerning combination of sharpness and rendering (magic...)... My absolute favourite on my M9 (what I have & compare to is: 28 cron asph & elmarit asph, 35 cron v4, 50 cron & elmar-m and 90 elmarit-m).

 

So... Do not sell that one!

 

Regards, Stein

Edited January 21, 2015 by Stein K S

[lct]

Don't you find OoF rendition harsher on the 35/1.4 asph at f/2? I don't own the pre-fle but i seem to recall that its bokeh was as busy as the fle's at f/2. I prefer the 35/2 asph for this reason. Easy to check if you have both bodies.

[Jeff S]

If you need f1.4, and the rest is a wash, there's your answer. I don't; the Summicron suffices. YMMV.

 

Jeff

[Carduelis]

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Although I have never owned the 35 mm ASPH Summicron, I have owned the 35 mm Summarit that was supposedly equal or if not a tad better overall according to Puts. Although I found the Summarit to be a very good lens, it seemed just to lack a bit of sharpness towards the edges and so I replaced it with the 35 mm ASPH Summilux pre-FLE lens (a later 6 bit coded model). My interpretation of looking at MTF curves also influenced the decision and overall I have been very pleased with the lens offering IMO wonderful rendering and bokeh, and excellent edge to edge sharpness for landscape photography. It is my favourite Leica lens out of the 24 mm Elmar, 50 ASPH Summilux and 90 mm Tel-Elmarit lenses that I own.

[roelandinho]

A long time since I had an M8, but isn't there a menu item for manual selection of non-coded lenses? I thought the filter was essential for any lens with that camera. Seems sensible to keep both until you go for a later camera, then rethink the situation and your preferences. M would allow EVF live view to obviate focus problems.

 

 

Unfortunately (and for no good reason I think) the M8 doesn't have that menu (the M9 does). For correct color, a UV/IR filter is indeed necessary, but on the other hand, black&white is more special without the filter (more interesting tonal information from reflection of IR light with dark synthetic fabrics).

[roelandinho]

It's been one year and a few months since I started this thread and -- guess what -- I still haven't made a decision about which lens to keep and which to sell. I know how stupid this sounds, and I could probably just toss a coin and not make a bad choice, and I know it doesn't really matter one bit when trying to make a good photograph, but... I'm just a control freak I guess. The 35 Summilux Asph and the 35 Summicron Asph are so close in many aspects but still both have their unique benefits...

 

However, in the meantime something relevant has changed: on New Year's Day my M8's shutter suddenly broke. I sent the camera to Wetzlar and after a few weeks of waiting Leica Customer Service offered a refurbished M9 as a replacement/upgrade for a very attractive price.

 

So now I am using both 35mm lenses on full-frame, which makes quite a big difference in how to make a successful composition (the subject has to be in the foreground in a lot of cases). It's a challenge for me because I don't feel very comfortable photographing people that close, and also because I don't want them to change their behavior because of my presence. But I am practicing, and sometimes it feels refreshing to go outside the comfort zone.

 

Anyway, on the M9 high ISO performance is adequate and I think I could manage with an f2 lens a lot easier than with the M8. Also, on the M9 I can manually select the lens I am using (I made a profile for the Summilux, which is not 6bit coded, and another profile for 6bit coded lenses).

 

In this scenario, the differences mostly come down to these points:

 

- I like the shape and build of the Summicron more. It's compact and very solid feeling. The Summilux is older, with a few small dents here and there, and a slightly rattling aperture ring.

- The Summicron has more contrast and richer color, and less distortion.

- The Summilux is a tiny bit sharper at every aperture.

- The Summilux can keep a bit of subject separation at middle to long distances thanks to the f1.4 aperture. This is in my opinion the most important benefit of having a large aperture.

- Focus shift is still the same for both lenses and totally not a problem.

 

Decisions are hard.

[Stealth3kpl]

I know your pain. I've managed to decide on a Lux FLE and a Summicron Mk4 from my collection of 35mm lenses. They each have their merits. I preferred the ergonomics of the Summicron Asph compared to the version 4 but I preferred the OOF of the MK4. If I were you I would keep the Summilux Asph and only consider keeping the Summicron Asph if weight is an issue.

Pete

[easy_action]

It's been one year and a few months since I started this thread

 

Nice of you to report back after a year!

 

This thread caught my eye because I have recently acquired a 35mm Summilux Asph. pre-FLE for my M8.2 - I don't have a Summicron Asph. for comparison, only the v4 and a humble Canon 35mm f2 ltm.  Both of these are really quite excellent lenses (no secret there), but i was attracted to the option of more background separation, and also greater flexibility when the light drops.  On both of these counts the new lens gives me exactly what I want.

 

I am still getting to grips with the focus shift issue, but my early experimentation seems to show accurate focus at f/1.4 and evidence of shift up to f/4.  In any case, that doesn't put me off in the slightest as this combination has already given me some wonderful images, and I really like the way the lens handles on the camera.

 

Good luck with your M9!

[roelandinho]

@Stealth3kpl It's certainly not about weight (100g isn't going to make a difference), it's more about form factor. I like the compactness of the Summicron, it is very nicely balanced on the M cameras. The Summilux feels slightly too big. There is probably a bigger difference (rendering, size) between the Cron version 4 and the Lux Asph than between the Cron Asph and Lux Asph. I want to keep only one 35mm because, knowing myself, I'm always going to have trouble to decide which lens to take for the occasion. :-)

 

@easyaction thank you. So are you going to keep three 35mm lenses and use them all three for different (or the same) things?

Concerning focus shift, the (relatively) most difficult case is getting critical focus at f/4 while your subject is close. It takes some practice, but after a while you will instinctively know just by how much you need to lessen the focus distance (according to the camera, the real focus distance will be shifted further away obviously).

 

I think I would like to just keep the Summicron, because I don't think I need anything more, and it fits the Leica camera better. It's all about restrictions and the freedom those restrictions bring, no? But I am scared that I will regret selling the Lux Asph...

 

It's probably a human thing.

 

This is one of my favorite photos: https://flic.kr/p/ASjWot With the Lux of course, but not that it matters ;-)

[Hayek]

...or you can sell both and get a 1,4/35 ZM. Granted it's big but you get f/1,4, great color, near-APO performance and no focus shift.

[Stealth3kpl]

@Stealth3kpl It's certainly not about weight (100g isn't going to make a difference), it's more about form factor. I like the compactness of the Summicron, it is very nicely balanced on the M cameras. The Summilux feels slightly too big. There is probably a bigger difference (rendering, size) between the Cron version 4 and the Lux Asph than between the Cron Asph and Lux Asph. I want to keep only one 35mm because, knowing myself, I'm always going to have trouble to decide which lens to take for the occasion. :-)

 

 

I think I would like to just keep the Summicron, because I don't think I need anything more, and it fits the Leica camera better. It's all about restrictions and the freedom those restrictions bring, no? But I am scared that I will regret selling the Lux Asph...

 

It's probably a human thing.

 

This is one of my favorite photos: https://flic.kr/p/ASjWot With the Lux of course, but not that it matters ;-)

 

That's my feeling also. I sold my Summicron Asph because I have a modern rendering in the Lux FLE. The Mk4 is on the camera full time at present because of it's compact nature. For digital, I really don't need the speed of the lux, but for film it is useful as is the separation wide open. Psychologically, the size of the FLE isn't too bad especially when the hood is removed. I suspect if I go fully digital I might sell the FLE taking a big hit financially, but it is useful for night time city wandering with just one camera. I'll probably stick with both lenses. It's difficult isn't it?! :-)

 

Looking through your images, If I were you I'd stick with just the lux. If the summicron wasn't around you wouldn't be aware of the bulk of the Lux.

Pete

Edited March 19, 2016 by Stealth3kpl

[easy_action]

@easyaction thank you. So are you going to keep three 35mm lenses and use them all three for different (or the same) things?

Concerning focus shift, the (relatively) most difficult case is getting critical focus at f/4 while your subject is close. It takes some practice, but after a while you will instinctively know just by how much you need to lessen the focus distance (according to the camera, the real focus distance will be shifted further away obviously).

 

 

 

I hadn't planned on parting with any, but if I find myself using the Summilux exclusively I might reconsider.

 

So far I have enjoyed shooting it wide open, so haven't really had to consider focus shift too seriously.  The results do seem sharp at f/1.4 (when I focus correctly and use a shutter speed appropriate for the subject etc.).

 

I also have a Sony A7ii, and had considered using it to explore how the focus shift manifests itself in my particular sample.  Hopefully the focus aids should make that process more straighforward.

[wattsy]

@Stealth3kpl It's certainly not about weight (100g isn't going to make a difference), it's more about form factor. I like the compactness of the Summicron, it is very nicely balanced on the M cameras. The Summilux feels slightly too big.

 

 

Yes, agreed. I have chopped and changed between the Summicron ASPH and Summilux ASPH so many times since buying my first Leica about 15 years ago that I have almost lost count of the number of these lenses I have bought and sold. I currently have both lenses and, whilst I think the Summilux (FLE version) is the "better" lens, I just find the Summicron the better fit for a Leica camera and much prefer how it feels (both in terms of balance and its smoother/lighter focussing). 

[TRIago]

The 35 Cron Asph is perfect for my needs. And by that I also mean size and build quality. It's just the right size. Smaller lenses are not good for me because of my big hands. Longer lenses are always a pain.. the 35 cron asph is just right. On top of that it's the FL I use almost all the time and image quality is perfect.

[Abram]

I don't have and have never used a Summilux 35 (of any flavor) but I do have the Summicron ASPH and it is easily my most used and favored lens to use on M bodies. It's the perfect lens from an ergonomics / handling standpoint and the image quality has never once left me wanting. 

 

I'm using it on both film Ms and an M240 and I'm very satisfied. 

 

I don't have any Summilux lenses personally but if I were to buy one it would likely be the 50mm as I wouldn't mind a slightly larger lens at that focal length. For 35mm I want it to be fast and nimble to handle. 

[CYBORA]

On 3/19/2016 at 10:42 AM, roelandinho said:

It's been one year and a few months since I started this thread and -- guess what -- I still haven't made a decision about which lens to keep and which to sell. I know how stupid this sounds, and I could probably just toss a coin and not make a bad choice, and I know it doesn't really matter one bit when trying to make a good photograph, but... I'm just a control freak I guess. The 35 Summilux Asph and the 35 Summicron Asph are so close in many aspects but still both have their unique benefits...

 

However, in the meantime something relevant has changed: on New Year's Day my M8's shutter suddenly broke. I sent the camera to Wetzlar and after a few weeks of waiting Leica Customer Service offered a refurbished M9 as a replacement/upgrade for a very attractive price.

 

So now I am using both 35mm lenses on full-frame, which makes quite a big difference in how to make a successful composition (the subject has to be in the foreground in a lot of cases). It's a challenge for me because I don't feel very comfortable photographing people that close, and also because I don't want them to change their behavior because of my presence. But I am practicing, and sometimes it feels refreshing to go outside the comfort zone.

 

Anyway, on the M9 high ISO performance is adequate and I think I could manage with an f2 lens a lot easier than with the M8. Also, on the M9 I can manually select the lens I am using (I made a profile for the Summilux, which is not 6bit coded, and another profile for 6bit coded lenses).

 

In this scenario, the differences mostly come down to these points:

 

- I like the shape and build of the Summicron more. It's compact and very solid feeling. The Summilux is older, with a few small dents here and there, and a slightly rattling aperture ring.

- The Summicron has more contrast and richer color, and less distortion.

- The Summilux is a tiny bit sharper at every aperture.

- The Summilux can keep a bit of subject separation at middle to long distances thanks to the f1.4 aperture. This is in my opinion the most important benefit of having a large aperture.

- Focus shift is still the same for both lenses and totally not a problem.

 

Decisions are hard.

The subject is about pre FLE version of Lux, but I would like to ask the comparison of the FLE version of Summilux 35 versus the 2016 version of Summicron in terms of contrast , color richness and bokeh.

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