DTM Posted January 12, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 12, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not trying to start a long discussion on which lens is better because that is very subjective with everyone's different experiences, perceptions, interests and constraints. But I would like some input from anyone that owns/uses the APO 50 cron and the current versions of 28 summicron and elmarit lenses. I have the APO 50 cron and absolutely love it. By the end of January I am planning to buy a 28 mm lens to go with it. I've read most of the old threads comparing the 28 cron and elmarit and as expected there is a pretty good split between who likes which lens better and for what reasons. What I would like to know from anyone that has the APO 50 and has used the 28s which of these two lenses gives results closest to the APO 50. And I have read about the physical differences (size, weight, lens hood etc.) and feel I would be comfortable with either lens. I know this is still subjective with many factors involved but would like input from others with experience. I have never used either lens and have no way of testing them before buying one. These are the only two lenses I am looking at. I don't mind spending the extra $2000 for the summicron if the pictures are closer to the APO 50. I am not a professional, only a hobbyist in my 60s that have come full circle from a single 50mm slr, thru zoom dslrs and now back to where I started with a prime 50 and soon a 28. Re-learning photography if you will. Thanks in advance for any input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 12, 2015 Posted January 12, 2015 Hi DTM, Take a look here Question for APO 50 and 28 elmarit/summicron users.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted January 12, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 12, 2015 I have only tested the 50 APO for a short period but have owned both current 28 lenses. In truth, neither 28 lens will replicate the corner sharpness or consistency of the 50 APO. IMO the 28 Elmarit ASPH has a little more of the latest Leica rendering style than does the Summicron but I still wouldn't characterise it as "50 APO-like". I'm actually not convinced by the Summicron at all on digital bodies but it is superlative on film M cameras. If you are looking for a wider lens to pair with your APO and look trumps field of view you might want to look at the 21 and 24 Super Elmar lenses rather than either of the 28s on offer (or wait for the 28 Summilux to be made available in a regular rather than special edition). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted January 12, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 12, 2015 What body is the OP using? That makes a difference. Also note used prices on the 28 cron are way down. I've seen them cheap as 2200, often going for around 2600. On the M9 the 28 cron is the best lens I own, with great performance WO and the best stopped down performance of any lens I've got. though I don't have a 50 APO or Lux asph. Some feel that the V4 Elmarit is the better performer of all versions but, the asph is so nice and tiny. 28 cron f/5.6: Dead Stand by unoh7, on Flickr 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted January 12, 2015 Sorry, forgot to post, I am using a M240. All digital, no film. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 12, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 12, 2015 I have another 28mm option which may seem radical, if you don't mind the digression. The Ricoh GR and its 28mm equivalent lens. Cheaper than another piece of glass and drops into your pocket. The results are nothing short of astounding. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrp Posted January 12, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 12, 2015 In my case, I have mainly modern look lenses which are great but struggle to get crisp images with the 28mm summicron on an m240 or m9. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 12, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 12, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry, forgot to post, I am using a M240. All digital, no film. DTM You did not say what you most often do with your images. I process mine on a 30" calibrated monitor and print on a 3880 at 13x19 most of the time and have some printed larger at my club. I am not one to post and process for screen. I have the same gear as you and also have the 28/2.8 and the 28/2.0. Frankly I often find the contrast of the Elmarit more to my liking and often more in line with my APO50 results. As you might know, nothing beats the APO50, however either lens will suit. That's color. Now for Monochrom shots I prefer the 28/2.0, but I am not sure why. Hard to explain and frankly my experiences will probably not parallel yours. My suggestion-- Rent both lenses and go testing for yourself. This will nip it in the bud within no time and you can pixel peep the results to death if you so desire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpk Posted January 12, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 12, 2015 The Cron 28 Asph is quite different from the APO 50 but I enjoy to have different "renderings" from different focal lengths. I feel the Super-Elmar 21 is more similar to the APO 50 though... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 12, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 12, 2015 Now for Monochrom shots I prefer the 28/2.0, but I am not sure why. Hard to explain and frankly my experiences will probably not parallel yours. My suggestion-- Rent both lenses and go testing for yourself. This will nip it in the bud within no time and you can pixel peep the results to death if you so desire. Lou, your comments are always very helpful ... so I want to follow up on Wattsy's points above. I never liked the results on M9 from my 28 Summicron and sold the lens. Now I am wondering about this lens on M240, but I have been cautioned by Tim Ashely's review that expressed disappointment with this combination. The 28 f/2 intrigues me because of increased separation at close focus. I shoot mostly with 24 Elmarit-ASPH and APO 50... wide open. M240 and MM. In your opinion, is the 28 in league with these two gems on the M240? Indeed, I have a rental 28 arranged for a trip in three weeks, and this thread seems highly relevant. thanks, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 12, 2015 Share #10 Posted January 12, 2015 The Cron 28 Asph is quite different from the APO 50 but I enjoy to have different "renderings" from different focal lengths. I feel the Super-Elmar 21 is more similar to the APO 50 though... jpk, Agreed, I have not shot anything that renders like my APO 50. On the M240, could you characterize the 28 Summicron rendering as being similar to any of the smoother, pre 2008 lenses? Have you shot an Elmarit-R 19 on the the M240, by chance? It is very nice and twinkly, like other Mandler-era lenses, but quite a lot to carry with the EVF and all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Posted January 13, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted January 13, 2015 DTM You did not say what you most often do with your images. I process mine on a 30" calibrated monitor and print on a 3880 at 13x19 most of the time and have some printed larger at my club. I am not one to post and process for screen. I have the same gear as you and also have the 28/2.8 and the 28/2.0. Frankly I often find the contrast of the Elmarit more to my liking and often more in line with my APO50 results. As you might know, nothing beats the APO50, however either lens will suit. That's color. Now for Monochrom shots I prefer the 28/2.0, but I am not sure why. Hard to explain and frankly my experiences will probably not parallel yours. My suggestion-- Rent both lenses and go testing for yourself. This will nip it in the bud within no time and you can pixel peep the results to death if you so desire. Thanks for your reply. Mostly the photo's I take are for screen and/or web. I have printed some that I think are really good but not that often. I process all of them with Lightroom. Interesting I find there is very little post processing needed for APO 50 pictures, usually only cropping, straightening and occasionally exposure settings. I've never had a lens this good before! That's why I would like to get the 28 that is similar (or closer to) the APO 50. From the couple of responses so far it seems like the Elmarit might be the choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted January 13, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 13, 2015 (edited) I have owned an APO 50 for about eighteen months. I have only used it on my MM as I believe that they were literally made for each other (I will probably be booed down for saying that). Last month I purchased an 28/2.8 Asph (Elmarit) as I wanted a wider lens than the 35 Lux that I already have. It is intended for use on the M9 (never the MM) and mainly for landscapes. From what I have seen of it's output, both screen and prints (I print my own work to A3+) the 28 Elmarit is not remotely similar to the APO 50. But that is a tough comparison, taken on it's own merits it is a very nice lens and has everything right with it. I have never used a 28 Cron and so cannot comment on the possibility of it being at all similar to the APO 50. But to be perfectly honest I don't think there exists another lens comparable (or as you say "close") to the APO 50.....I hope this has been of some help to you! Edited January 13, 2015 by platypus added stuff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snooper Posted January 13, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 13, 2015 I have them both, and for some reasons I prefer the following lineup: - Cron 35 and APO 50 on the M240 - Cron 28 and Lux 50 on the MM Probably no rational or technical reasons behind this choice, but anyway you can't be wrong with these Crons... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffry Abt Posted January 13, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 13, 2015 I use the APO 50 and 28 Elmarit. Could not be happier! I suppose if a 28mm Lux came out, my contentment might be spoiled. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 13, 2015 Share #15 Posted January 13, 2015 Lou, your comments are always very helpful ... so I want to follow up on Wattsy's points above. I never liked the results on M9 from my 28 Summicron and sold the lens. Now I am wondering about this lens on M240, but I have been cautioned by Tim Ashely's review that expressed disappointment with this combination. The 28 f/2 intrigues me because of increased separation at close focus. I shoot mostly with 24 Elmarit-ASPH and APO 50... wide open. M240 and MM. In your opinion, is the 28 in league with these two gems on the M240? Indeed, I have a rental 28 arranged for a trip in three weeks, and this thread seems highly relevant. thanks, Peter Tim's review was an exception to what other respected reviewers have written about this lens. For example, Erwin Puts. Tim's conclusion was that it wasn't an exciting lens. I was never sure what makes a lens exciting, what that description means in technical terms and even if a lens has the ability to be exciting. I believe Tim just had a bad copy or he was exceedingly critical. I find the 28 Summicron very sharp and contrasty and it will not flare. I generally shoot it at f4.0 where the lens is optimum and it gives the starting point for the look I want most of the time. Wide open it will look like the Elmarit at 2.8 according to Puts. Wide open it is difficult to get the kind of separation that one sees at 50mm. Superimposition at 28mm and wider, along with smaller apertures, gives much more interesting scenes, in my opinion. I will say the 28 Summicron is marginally less sharp and has marginally less contrast compared to my 35 FLE which, is optically one of my best lenses. Very fine detail is not as bitingly sharp across the entire field as the 35 FLE. Some like the less harsh look of the 28 Summicron compared to the almost too sharp and contrasty image from the 35 FLE and some apparently find this unexciting. For me, it is conflict between having the focal length I like the most (28mm) and having an optically superior image (35mm FLE). I am considering getting the little 28 Elmarit. It is the smallest lens in the current Leica offerings. I have shot with it and I wasn't able to tell much difference between it and the 28 Summilux. The Elmarit also has less distortion than the 28 Summilux. It really is a little gem. And, the size may sway me. As far as the comparison to the 50 APO, which I owned for a short period of time, there is nothing that approximates the color, contrast and sharpness of the 50 APO. Maybe, the 35 FLE would be a better lens to choose if the OP wants to try and match the "look" of the 50 APO. Those two lenses probably have more in common. And, in the end, how fortunate we are to have a camera system so flushed out with fine lenses that we can even have a discussion like this. Rick 11 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted January 14, 2015 Share #16 Posted January 14, 2015 I am considering getting the little 28 Elmarit. It is the smallest lens in the current Leica offerings. I have shot with it and I wasn't able to tell much difference between it and the 28 Summilux. The Elmarit also has less distortion than the 28 Summilux. It really is a little gem. And, the size may sway me. And, in the end, how fortunate we are to have a camera system so flushed out with fine lenses that we can even have a discussion like this. Rick Rick, thanks for your interesting comments re 35 FLE vs. 28 Summicron. Then, when you mentioned 28 Summilux, did you intend to write Summicron... or did you have a chance to work with a 28 Summilux prototype? I agree with you whole heartedly that Leica produces a wealth of superb wide angle lenses, and any one of them is surely a joy to shoot with! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 14, 2015 Share #17 Posted January 14, 2015 Thanks for the kind words and yes, I meant the 28 Summicron. Maybe I had the 28 Summilux in the back of my mind. I believe that will be a great lens, but I am afraid it will be too large for my taste. We'll have to wait and see. I do like 28mm a lot. Maybe, Leica will introduce the 28 Summilux with the new MM CMOS coming soon... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Posted January 14, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted January 14, 2015 As far as the comparison to the 50 APO, which I owned for a short period of time, there is nothing that approximates the color, contrast and sharpness of the 50 APO. Maybe, the 35 FLE would be a better lens to choose if the OP wants to try and match the "look" of the 50 APO. Those two lenses probably have more in common. And, in the end, how fortunate we are to have a camera system so flushed out with fine lenses that we can even have a discussion like this. Rick Rick, Thank you and the others for your great input. Before starting this thread I was thinking of getting the Summicron but after all the input I am leaning towards the Elmarit. The only Leica experience I have is the M240 and the APO 50 so what I read on this site from you and others is very valuable. I like shooting with a 35mm focal length and have that with a Sony A7r. Not in the same category as Leica 35s but it is acceptable with additional post processing. Right now I am only using that setup when I need AF. I chose the 28mm because I want separation from the 50mm. I am afraid that with the 35mm being so easy to shoot that it could significantly cut into the time the APO 50 is on the camera. I don't want that to happen, the APO is too good. 21 and 24 mm are too wide and would sit in the camera bag almost all the time. So the 28mm seems like a good focal length for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted January 14, 2015 Share #19 Posted January 14, 2015 (edited) DTM, you have a camera system with your M + 50 APO that is really unbeaten by anything. I tend to agree with you that the 35 is close to the 50 for a second lens. Once, you get several lenses the 35 will seem much different then 50, though. But, until then, I believe that 28 + 50 is going to be a great kit. Also, the little 28 Elmarit is such a gem that you will never regret having it in your kit no matter what you might add later. And, I want to assure you that you will never look at the files from the 28 Elmarit and see that much difference from your vaunted APO 50mm Summicron. Rick Edited January 14, 2015 by RickLeica 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_w Posted January 14, 2015 Share #20 Posted January 14, 2015 +1 re the 28 Elmarit being a gem. The combo is so light and compact that sometimes I use it as a take-along rig for those just-in-case occasions where I might need a camera but not sure. In that case the lens is chosen regardless of whether I actually plan to use 28mm. If needed a little cropping still results in a great photo with a 35 or even 50 perspective and enough pixels remaining. Or you can have the full 28 FOV if that works best. Optics are excellent, of course. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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