Mandler's 135 Elmarit..or not?

[uhoh7]

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Mandler gets credit for the M elmarit 135 v1 and v2, plus the elmarit-R 135s, but the wiki does not credit him with the 135-m V3?

 

just oversight?

 

Also on the wiki the design for the M 135s is listed as 5/3 but the Rs at 5/4?

 

is that correct?

 

Ty so much

 

PS

I would like to move my eye 'frame' to the left within the finder.

image by unoh7, on Flickr

 

What I have heard: loosen 7 screws on back, then dig out tiny screws on side and top of left eye to move the frame horizontally or vertically.

 

What are the two large screws on the left side for?

 

Edited October 21, 2014 by uhoh7

[adan]

Per E. Puts' Leica Lens Compendium (text and diagrams)

 

The first two 135 f/2.8 designs (M v. 1 and 2, R v. 1) were Leitz Wetzlar designs.

 

The third (M v.3, R v.2) was designed by Leitz Canada (Mandler's team).

 

All have five elements, in four groups. (None is 5/3). The general layouts are slightly different.

 

The first two are similar to the Wetzlar 135 f/4 Tele-Elmar. Two elements, a fat cemented group (two more elements), the diaphragm, and a final negative (crescent) rear element.

 

The third is more like Mandler's designs for the compact 90 Summicron R (1970) and M (1980), and 180 Elmarit M (v.1) - One element, the fat cemented group, a negative element, the diaphragm, and a final positive (biconvex) rear element.

 

I really would not try to get inside the goggle housing of one of these - it is extremely easy to foul up the alignment of the two magnifiers (rectangular, left, and round, right) and end up with major focusing problems. THE most common problem with used 135 Elmarit-Ms is messed-up focus prism alignment (which requires a trip to Leica, or other professional service folks, to get straightened out).

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[uhoh7]

Per E. Puts' Leica Lens Compendium (text and diagrams)

 

The first two 135 f/2.8 designs (M v. 1 and 2, R v. 1) were Leitz Wetzlar designs.

 

The third (M v.3, R v.2) was designed by Leitz Canada (Mandler's team).

 

All have five elements, in four groups. (None is 5/3). The general layouts are slightly different.

 

The first two are similar to the Wetzlar 135 f/4 Tele-Elmar. Two elements, a fat cemented group (two more elements), the diaphragm, and a final negative (crescent) rear element.

 

The third is more like Mandler's designs for the compact 90 Summicron R (1970) and M (1980), and 180 Elmarit M (v.1) - One element, the fat cemented group, a negative element, the diaphragm, and a final positive (biconvex) rear element.

 

I really would not try to get inside the goggle housing of one of these - it is extremely easy to foul up the alignment of the two magnifiers (rectangular, left, and round, right) and end up with major focusing problems. THE most common problem with used 135 Elmarit-Ms is messed-up focus prism alignment (which requires a trip to Leica, or other professional service folks, to get straightened out).

 

TY so much for the excellent reply Andrew

 

Wow, the wiki is way out there!

 

You seem to imply Mandler had more to do with the v3 than any other version!

 

Puts, as you note, goes into some detail:

"The Elmarit –M (2)/Elmarit-R (1) at full aperture exhibit low contrast, and the

definition of fine detail is rendered with softer edges. Performance is very even over

the picture area, and vignetting is low with half a stop. The low contrast in the field,

due partly to coma, however, does degrade the overall image quality. Stopping down

to 1:4 does enhance contrast and brings the image quality almost to the level of the

Tele-Elmar 1:4/135mm at 1:4. Stopping down further improves quality very

reluctantly and very fine detail is crisply rendered at 1:8, but the outer zones stay a bit

soft. Outlines and coarse detail are recorded quite crisp, but slightly below the quality

of the Tele-Elmar.

Distortion is very slight. The next version [Our V3] has improved contrast at full aperture,

giving the rendition of coarse and fine details an edge in clarity. From 1:4 the newer

version is comparable to the older version, with one exception: the newer version is a

bit softer in the outer zones. Close-up quality of the newer design is improved and

delivers excellent rendition of fine detail. Vignetting and distortion are comparable."

 

Would still love to hear from someone who has adjusted the frame

 

v3 @2.8 the other nite (with M9)

L1023126 by unoh7, on Flickr

Edited October 22, 2014 by uhoh7

[gyoung]

Not sure swhat you mean by adjusting the frame, there are adjustments on mine for horizontal and verticle adjustment of thhe rangefinder images, but the viewfinder frame is in the camera.

Mine had some damage to the 'goggles' when I got it, but the optics where all intact, Malcolm Taylor sorted it all out and adjusted it and its fine now.

A previous thread on this lens established that there are several different versions of the viewfinder system, not necessarily directly related to the optical changes.

 

Gerry

[uhoh7]

Not sure swhat you mean by adjusting the frame, there are adjustments on mine for horizontal and verticle adjustment of thhe rangefinder images, but the viewfinder frame is in the camera.

Mine had some damage to the 'goggles' when I got it, but the optics where all intact, Malcolm Taylor sorted it all out and adjusted it and its fine now.

A previous thread on this lens established that there are several different versions of the viewfinder system, not necessarily directly related to the optical changes.

 

Gerry

 

HI Gerry

 

TY for reply.

 

Within the googles is a frame in the left eye. It's black beyond the edge. It can be moved.

 

I've searched quite a bit but did not come across the thread you mention, if anyone has a link that would be fantastic

 

 

Here we go:

Steve, I don't think you understood the repair advice given by Jan. The screws are actually located on the round goggle, near it's rear where the back plate attaches. As Jan said, the holes where the screws are buried are covered by a black wax or soft paint and this must be cleared out to see the screws. These screws are tiny slotted screws and adjustment requires an appropriately small screwdriver blade. The bottom screw at 6:00 adjusts the vertical alignment and the other adjusts horizontal alignment. Adjusting one generally affects the other, so you need to play with both. Only very small adjustments are need so don't over do it. Lastly, it's VERY important to loosed the seven screws securing the back plate as the friction of the plate when screwed down prevents any movement of the lens your attempting to move with the adjustment screws on. the round goggle. It's really a simple adjustment if your a little handy with these things. Obviously, you should make sure the camera's rf adjustment with non-goggled lenses is correct as you are using this as your starting point.

 

I'm wondering if the two LARGE screws show in my first post also should be loosened in addition to the seven.

 

Also the interior of my goggles is a bit dusty and I would love to clean it. What happens if you pull the back plate all the way off?

 

Alan again at RFF:

"It's an easy DIY fix if you've got some small flat blade screwdrivers and good hand coordination for making fine adjustments. Simply dig out the black wax/paint plug of the vertical adjustment port located on the bottom of the "round" goggle close to the rear back plate. This will reveal the head of a small adjustment screw. Now loosen the 7 small screws holding the back plate enough so it's loosely held in place. No need to completely remove them. Ignore the 2 larger screws on either side of the rectangular window on the back plate. Using a small thin flat blade screwdriver that's 0.9 mm wide, insert into the adjustment port making sure its fit's properly into the slotted head of the adjustment screw. Turning it a "hair" clockwise raises the rf image in the viewfinder and counterclockwise lowers it. I usually use a contrasty distant target like a radio tower to check. Adjusting the vertical position may affect the horizontal focus setting so be prepared that you'll have to adjust that as well. It's port is on the outside of the round goggle about 90 degrees from the bottom one. Same procedure but turning it clockwise moves the rf image left in the viewfinder right when turned counterclockwise. Once adjustments are satisfactory, simply tighten the back plate screws to lock the setting in place and fill in the ports with black crayon wax. I usuallly wait a while for the very last step untill I'm absolutely certain the adjustments are what I want. Easier done than said."

 

But wish I could find the post which delineates the various types of goggles.

Edited October 22, 2014 by uhoh7

[gyoung]

Here you go:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/showthread.php?t=297804

 

Not sure if it will help you, best of luck taking it apart!

Just remember (if you are in the uk) Malcolm Taylor can probably fix it if it goes pear shaped !

 

Gerry

[k-hawinkler]

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Here you go:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/showthread.php?t=297804

 

Not sure if it will help you, best of luck taking it apart!

Just remember (if you are in the uk) Malcolm Taylor can probably fix it if it goes pear shaped !

 

Gerry

 

 

But how long will it take him?

[uhoh7]

Here you go:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/showthread.php?t=297804

 

Not sure if it will help you, best of luck taking it apart!

Just remember (if you are in the uk) Malcolm Taylor can probably fix it if it goes pear shaped !

 

Gerry

 

TY Gerry but not much new in that thread

 

I don't want to "remove" the goggles.

 

I want to clean and adjust the black frame within the left "eye"