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Secondhand lens prices


IWC Doppel

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Interesting that secondhand prices continue to soften. Noctiluxes near £3k and 28 Summicron's well below £2k. Look at least 10-15% down on 18m ago. I know supply of new was limited but not for lenses like the 28mm Summicron. Is the demand for older M glass in decline ?

 

I'm happy with my lenses so not looking to sell or buy tbh but interesting all the same. If the 21 Summilux drops below £3k I might get excited !

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I don't think demand is in decline at all, but the prices are now more realistic.

 

Besides Leica prices increases the jump in second hand prices was caused by the introduction of the M9 while at the same time there was a famine of new lenses coming from the factory. So it was a perfect storm that caused second hand prices to leap. It has taken this long for the market to calm down and for Leica to get on top of supplying new lenses.

 

Steve

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Perhaps low growth in European economies has something to do with lower prices in used goods.

Undoubtedly a factor on both sides of the Atlantic. There did seem to be a run-up on second-hand M prices in anticipation of the Sony a7 that peaked when it became clear the two did not play well together. No FF Fujifilm option probably also put a slight damper.

 

The best of the best of the R's (which unlike the M's, were usually in pretty limited production) have held their value and should continue to until such time that something better comes along (more Zeiss Otii?). The stars of the R's and E mount are a great mating and also remain popular with pro videographers/filmmakers preferring the Leica look--Leitax has a newer mount to eliminate the aperture ring detents.

 

I understand your point regarding supply a year or two ago, but if you really wanted a lens in most cases it was possible. We still have the same issues regarding supply of new designs. I wonder how the M is selling in comparison to the M9

 

 

I might be mistaken but they don't seem to hold their value as well as the M9 did second hand, at least in the US. Perhaps a sign of demand. Or the availability of other compelling options that weren't there in 2009-12.

Edited by james.liam
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I think this forum tends to be a bit Atlanto-centric when thinking of Leica. Asia is 40% of their market these days. And in a global, internet market, prices tend to be global as well.

 

In the wake of the M9, Asians were buying ANY type of Leica lens they could get. When new lenses were in short supply, they bid up the prices of used gear. If you had a billion yuan in your pocket, paying nearly new price to get a used lens was of no consequence.

 

In 2010-2012 - KEH's used Leica M lens stock shrank to fewer than 20 lenses, because B&H was listing virtually ever new lens as "out of stock".

 

But I think that was a distortion of the market, due to lack of supply.

 

Today, B&H lists everything as IN STOCK, except for the not-yet-available revised Summarits and new chrome lenses. And KEH has 71 used M-mount lenses.

 

So supply and demand are in a different balance than they were in the past - and prices for used gear (the only place where there is flexibility, unless Leica offers rebates) reflect that.

 

21 Elmarit non-ASPH (an important lens for me, so I tend to notice....)

 

2001 - new-old-stock - $1100 US

2005 - used - $1100

2012 - used - $2100

2014 - used - $1700-ish

 

I'd say used M lenses are actually still a tiny bit high, based on historical prices and actual inflation. Just not as far out of line as they were for a while.

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but if you really wanted a lens in most cases it was possible.

 

Really? Well if you managed to buy what you wanted back then well done, I seem to remember posts on LUF every day asking where people could go to for a new lens. So bad was the drought that many potential owners didn't bother with the M9, and LUF still gets posts asking if Leica lenses are available such is the folk memory.

 

And long term Leica users will also recall the massive jump in the value of their lenses which went up 50% almost overnight. That illusory 'value' took a long time to deflate even though there was no substance behind it and with it being based on scarcity alone. It was very similar to the 'Tulip Mania' of the 17th century where people were reporting they'd found a Noctilux and even though strapped for cash felt obliged to buy it because they couldn't possibly see how they would ever loose money on it.

 

Steve

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I see there are A LOT of dreaming sellers on eBay nowadays. The only lenses that actually sell on eBay are the ones that don't have a stupid high "buy it now" price, and the one's that start at low bids without reserves. These lenses usually go for about 20-30% LESS than the lenses being sold with a high buy it now price or high bid reserve. That includes 28 Summicrons, 50 Noctilux 0.95's, 28 Elmarit's, 35 FLE's and 90 Summicron's.

 

All the other ones, with rather high buy it now prices and high bid reserves are just getting re-listed and re-listed and re-listed... I've been watching the ebay market for a while now.

 

So anyone who bought into the idea of "buy leica glass cause it'll just increase in value over time" is probably feeling a bit disappointed nowadays.

Not that I care, cause that's not why I bought mine. Photography should never be an investment and economics game in the first place. So I'm happy to see this change! Finally real aspiring photographers might have the chance to get some Leica gear at decent used costs as well.

Edited by indergaard
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I would actually say that prices for 'good' black 50mm Summicrons is currently as high as ever. In fact for most of the sought after lenses including some of the older designs, prices are still pretty high, but for good, clean copies.

 

Where I think there has been a drop, is in the prices of the less than mint lenses which have become more realistic depending on their condition; and this includes lenses like the Noctilux. Exc + and Exc lenses which may need a CLA, coding and adjustment have dropped a bit as people realise that its actually cheaper to buy a lens which has had this done or a very clean copy which will retain a higher value if kept in pristine condition.

 

I'd say that the market is rather more realistic now than it was - and that includes newer designs which have had some use too.

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The old lenses kind of keep the price better at the moment, and one of the reasons being is nobody produces them anymore.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 75 Lux costs more then new Cron in a near future.

But as already stated in the posts above, it all depends upon supply&demand.

I just hope this is not a sign of many people leaving the system because there are quite many good alternatives out there (no RF though), meaning less money for Leica to invest in the new M development.

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Global economics factor and also I think people are more reasonable in the price they are willing to pay for.

There is also the competition between unofficial/non professional resellers, i.e. people who buy used gears with in mind a non-taxed profit resale (so many in every photo forums :(). They have to offer a more competitive price than their many neighbors but will keep the price high enough to not crash their business.

Edited by Ginko
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I have amassed a diverse collection of vintage M glass over the last 6 years- and by being astute (or miserly if you prefer) I have managed to get them all pretty cheap. Base market used prices still look sky high to me. I don't have a single lens that wouldn't sell for more today than I paid for it- and in most cases considerably so. I am not just bragging: I advocate Leica glass as a 'cheap' way to get good camera gear- if you buy smart- and if you can live with capital tied up in a lens for a time- owning it is almost free or even proffitable.

 

As an example I picked up a chrome 50 summilux, surprised that a local dealer had it on a shelf for 1000AUD. I wasn't in the market for yet another 50mm- :rolleyes:but could afford the investment so snapped it up:cool:. I happily used it for two years - before I came across another even nicer example of the same lens- also for a price I couln't say no to. I sold the first for $1650 AUD. $650 cash and two years of Summilux rental for an investment of $1000 is sound business to my way of thinking. ;)

 

Although prices have softened over the last 2 years, I think vintage Leica is such a stable, finite, 'antique', almost fine-art commodity, that it will continue to hold a decent comparative value for some time yet- unless the global economy really collapses- as I unfortunately suspect it may :( - in which case, who cares what you invested in if it wasn't edible or drinkable.

Edited by jaques
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where did you see that? :confused:

 

Aperture in London recently sold 2 f1 Noctiluxes for under £3k each. In fact one, a 'user' (to employ a trade term) but with 'good optics' was a mere £2090. The other was boxed, Ex++, at £2990.

 

It also intrigues me to see the variation in UK dealer used prices for lenses in apparently similar condition. For example, I bought a mint boxed 6 bit 28 Summicron recently for £1699 from a UK London Leica dealer. Another Leica dealer elsewhere in UK wants a slightly ambitious £2449 for a similar condition used 28 'cron. Huge variation there.

 

Perhaps it's always been thus in terms of price variation, but I agree that prices, in general, are softening.

 

Anyhow, I'm keeping all mine.........

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