What's wrong with UV/IR Filters?

[piblondin]

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I previously had an M8 and now I have an M9. I continue to shoot with UV/IR filters on my lenses. Yet, people seem to really dislike them. Why is that the case?

 

I'm not a believer in using no filter on Leica (or any) lenses. So, if I'm going to put a filter on my lens, what makes UV/IR so much worse than a normal UV filter? Are they more prone to flare/reflections? In what sort of situations does that tendency manifest itself? I've yet to really notice it, but I also don't often shoot in dark settings with bright lights.

[jip]

It doesn't have any more bad or worse effect than a regular UV filter, and in very strong sunlight it actually helps against the remaining IR light... just keep using them I used them on the M8, then M9 and now M240...

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[mirekti]

It would be useful to remove them at night, especially it the subject is backlit as the filter might bring some reflections to the image.

I use them all the time during the daylight shooting.

 

I hope next generation of sensors will fully remove the possible IR contamination.

[Jeff S]

I think many people just got turned off by Leica's after-the-fact solution (UV/IR cut filters) to unanticipated M8 issues. Funny how some of those same folks now praise the use of even more filters on their Monochrom, which require more case-by-case use.

 

The fact is that the M8 with a cut filter does a better job of IR filtration in many cases than the M9 without a filter. Some here have written about continuing to use a cut filter on the M9 in some circumstances.

 

Jeff

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I've even seen IR contamination on my M240. Oh and in some shots my shooting partner gave me from last weekends wedding shot on a Canon. I agree with the consensus of this thread and I'm in the process of ordering a filter for each of my lenses.

 

The only negative consideration over a standard UV filter, that I can see, is cost. They are much pricier here than a good UV filter. But they're also a one off purchase.

 

Gordon

[mirekti]

I agree with the consensus of this thread and I'm in the process of ordering a filter for each of my lenses.

 

Not sure what lenses you own, but you wouldn't need it for anything wider than 35mm as it could remove the IR, but you'd most likely end up with the Italian flag i.e. the corners of WA lenses become trouble with the UV/IR filters.

[erl]

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My experience: Started with IR cut filters on all lenses for my M8's.

Because I use the same lenses on my M9 I now leave the filters on.

 

Two effects can occur:

Greens in landscape (or anywhere) tend to render better with the IR cut filters.

Magenta casts abound in tungsten light situations if you remove the filter.

This is primarily from synthetic black fabrics, but not exclusively.

 

Worst danger is ghost reflections from light sources in the image caused by the filter. Any filter, not just the IR cut filter.

 

Conclusion: Use IR cut filters as standard, but remove in tunsten light situations as described above.

 

Caution: For stage/theatrical work, where lots of black fabrics abound (curtains, stage hands, etc.) synthetics are prevalent and you need to choose between black rendering and stage light flare as opposing factors.

 

Warning: Never shoot a wedding without IR cut filters. I did and revealed that the groom's dinner suit was genuine natural fibre, whilst the best man and groomsmen all had synthetic hire suits that reproduced magenta.

Fast learning curve!

Edited August 25, 2014 by erl

[Bill W]

When I bought my M9, I put all of my UV/IR filters on ebay for sale in a package deal. Since there were a lot of M8 shooters our there still, I had no trouble selling them. I think there were 8 of them at the time, Since four of them were free from Leica, I did not have a lot invested. I used the proceeds to but plain B+W UV filters.

[IWC Doppel]

Sold mine off a few years back, very happy to use all my lenses naked on my M9-P. I did have real issues at night with my M8, but other than that they were just an additional cost

[A miller]

dumb question - any reason why it is not good to use a Leica UV/IR filter on an MM? I bought one for my M9 and wanted to use it for the MM to protect the lens. Not thrilled about buying an non-IR filter specifically for the MM.

[jaapv]

Why is that? IR will only lift the shadows a bit. It is too weak to impinge on sharpness like on the M8 (and even there minimally).

The problem with IR filters is that they usually have less effective antireflection coatings thus being more susceptible to flare and reflections.

And you don't need to protect your colour rendering on the MM.

I prefer to have a middle yellow filter on the Monochrome.

[A miller]

Why? b/c I am selectively cheap!

I love my yellow and orange filters on the MM and regularly use the yellow for much of my street shooting. But it does cost about a stop of light, which is very precious when trying to keep the shutter very fast.

 

I was told by a person who makes her livelihood by selling gear to stupid people like me that the Leica UV/IR filter is totally ok and won't affect the images at all.

 

It does appear to have some very nice coating that has blue and magenta reflections. Kind of cool. But not if it affects my images in situations in which I just don't want to use to franken-hood on my 28 cron and want to have piece of mind that my lens won't get damaged by someone's lollipop (which nearly happened yesterday in SOHO)

Edited August 28, 2014 by A miller

[erl]

 

I was told by a person who makes her livelihood by selling gear to stupid people like me that the Leica UV/IR filter is totally ok and won't affect the images at all.

 

Like so many sales people, she is only half right.

The IR/UV filter will affect some images, not all. Depends largely on what and when you shoot. See my post #7 above.

[A miller]

Erl - How does your #7 apply to use on my MM?

[erl]

oopps! Red face.

Sorry, I was thinking M9 (blinkered vision).

[A miller]

no worries at all. But I would like someone smarter than me (which are many) to tell me whether an IR filter on an MM is sensible.

[erl]

I don't have an MM but for what it is worth here is my general opinion.

A UV/IR cut filter on the MM would have some benefit as follows:

Limited protection of the the front lens element from physical threats.

A slightly different tonal rendering of some greens in terms of B&W.

Disadvantages:

As for any filter, it would present risk of additional internal flares from some specular lights, eg. stage, street lights.

 

If you have the right size filter, I would just try it. I don't know that I would specifically buy one just for use on the MM. Some colour filters might be good though, just as for B&W film.

[A miller]

Thanks, Erl. Really appreciate it.

 

I gave a call to Leica in Germany and spoke to a technical specialist.

 

In the nicest, most charming way possible, he told me that I was an idiot to use the UV/IR filter on my MM. He also said that it should not be used on an M9. He said that the filter was only made for use for the M8 and M8.2.

[jaapv]

Why? b/c I am selectively cheap!

I love my yellow and orange filters on the MM and regularly use the yellow for much of my street shooting. But it does cost about a stop of light, which is very precious when trying to keep the shutter very fast.

 

I was told by a person who makes her livelihood by selling gear to stupid people like me that the Leica UV/IR filter is totally ok and won't affect the images at all.

 

It does appear to have some very nice coating that has blue and magenta reflections. Kind of cool. But not if it affects my images in situations in which I just don't want to use to franken-hood on my 28 cron and want to have piece of mind that my lens won't get damaged by someone's lollipop (which nearly happened yesterday in SOHO)

 

The reflections stem from the fact that it is a multilayered filter, but that same layering makes it more difficult to apply anti reflective coating.

 

As for your last post, it is not stupid to use an IR filter on the M9 if you are in intense IR conditions.

 

For protection there are special protective filters (B&W 007)

Edited August 29, 2014 by jaapv

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[erl]

Thanks, Erl. Really appreciate it.

 

I gave a call to Leica in Germany and spoke to a technical specialist.

 

In the nicest, most charming way possible, he told me that I was an idiot to use the UV/IR filter on my MM. He also said that it should not be used on an M9. He said that the filter was only made for use for the M8 and M8.2.

 

With the greatest of respect for the Leica 'technical specialist' I am sure he is very good in the lab. When it comes to work in the field, these 'experts' can leave a lot to be desired. Hence the use of Beta Testers, for example.

 

As I outlined in my post above, I have proven to my satisfaction that an IR cut filter is actually necessary on the M9 in some situations and certainly beneficial in others. The bottom line is you must make final assessment for yourself. Only you have to be convinced.