goutui Posted July 14, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello people, I am a newbie, both to this forum and leica, so please forgive me if i ask stupid or outdated questions... so basically i'm trying to decide on a 21mm lens... i've heard people saying that you buy the Lux for the large aperture for low light and creative shooting and you buy the SEM for higher quality landscape photography.... but still wanna hear from your experience, is it correct to say that 21/3.4 produces better IQ than 21/1.4 throughout? i.e. only real shortfall of 21/3.4 is the small aperture?? Or, if you stop down 21/1.4 to f3.4 and smaller the IQ is comparable or same as 21/3.4? and would the discontinued 21/2.8 ASPH be a good compromise in aperture size and IQ??? Not considering other factors such as price, size/weight, non-Leica lenses... Thank you all in advance.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Hi goutui, Take a look here M21/1.4, M21/3.4 or M21/2.8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rramesh Posted July 14, 2014 Share #2 Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Maybe you should tell us what you intend to do with a 21? Low light, architecture, landscape, interior ... That way you may get the best advise. Each lens has its pros. Edited July 14, 2014 by rramesh 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 14, 2014 Share #3 Posted July 14, 2014 I'd start by looking at the downloadable sheets for these lenses from Leica (you may have to search for the older 2.8 one though I'm sure it will be archived somewhere). However. Any ultra fast wide-angle is a specialist lens - you either need and will use f/1.4 or you don't/won't. So you should be able to decide this based on your potential usage. Of the other 2, the newer SE is quite simply a superb lens with fabulous image 'quality' (and is the one I have). Unless you genuinely nee the faster aperture its the one I'd go for. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted July 14, 2014 thanks, Ramchand. I would say i will definitely use it for landscape shooting while travelling but I do hope it could provide some versatility as I always shoot indoors, and as shallow as one can be, I am a big fan of small DOF... I did not mention this just now 'cos I feel it doesn't really say anything... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted July 14, 2014 Share #5 Posted July 14, 2014 Hello people, I am a newbie, both to this forum and leica, so please forgive me if i ask stupid or outdated questions... so basically i'm trying to decide on a 21mm lens... i've heard people saying that you buy the Lux for the large aperture for low light and creative shooting and you buy the SEM for higher quality landscape photography.... but still wanna hear from your experience, is it correct to say that 21/3.4 produces better IQ than 21/1.4 throughout? i.e. only real shortfall of 21/3.4 is the small aperture?? Or, if you stop down 21/1.4 to f3.4 and smaller the IQ is comparable or same as 21/3.4? and would the discontinued 21/2.8 ASPH be a good compromise in aperture size and IQ??? Not considering other factors such as price, size/weight, non-Leica lenses... Thank you all in advance.... Also in conjunction with post #2 can you advise what camera you wish to use 21mm lens with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted July 14, 2014 thanks Paul!!! I've seen some of your replies to other posts, genuinely very helpful... so one point for 21/3.4!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted July 14, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) m9 and m3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted July 14, 2014 Share #8 Posted July 14, 2014 m9 and m3 That good for a start. If you need ultimate in image quality in compact package than f3.4, if lens speed is your aim than f1.4, for anything in between f2.8. You will need external VF, latest metal version is very good, I love mine with M9P, also good for framing 28mm shots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 14, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted July 14, 2014 Thanks Mladen... i take your answer as a Yes to my first question, i.e. 3.4 has better IQ than 1.4!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted July 14, 2014 Share #10 Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) I have the 3.4/21 Summilux and the 1.4/21 SEM. I can't comment on the 2.8/21 The Summilux is an extraordinary lens - except for the size it is very versatile being two and a half stops faster than the SEM and has a lovely rendering. I've used it very successfully for all types of photography. As expected some loss of contrast wide open at f1.4. Some distortion but really only an issue for precise architectural work (not that bad and overall well corrected with LR lens presets). A 21mm lens with a max f-stop of 1.4 can be hand held at quite low shutter speeds - a sort of a wide angle Noctilux. Fantastic for low light where I want to maintain the best IQ with lower ISO. I found it invaluable for a trip to Europe in winter where light was very limited (inside and outside). The option of reduced DOF is occasionally helpful artistically. Obviously some optical compromises to have such a fast lens. But the 21 SEM is by far the most used of these two lenses - mainly because it is so compact so is fine in good light, but very different rendering (clean and transparent), minimal distortion, very sharp, better high ISO performance of newer cameras offsets some of the problem of max f-stop of 3.4. And it's significantly cheaper than the 21 Summilux. I had the 21 Summilux first and then felt I needed a more compact lens for when lighting was not a problem. I think that if you are only going to have one 21mm Leica lens get the SEM. Having the choice of either to use is very nice! Edited July 14, 2014 by MarkP 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted July 14, 2014 Share #11 Posted July 14, 2014 I'm also a huge 21mm fan and I have settled with a 21 SEM which is proving to be an extraordinary landscape lens. However my favourite 21mm lens is the distagon and unfortunately they don't offer that in the ZM line but I read the biogon is an excellent contender. If you don't mind the size then I think 21mm summilux is probably the better choice for you as you mentioned that you love small DOF and thats not something you can get with the SEM. I've never tried the elmarit but if I wanted a compromise I would get the 2.8 biogon because it has better MFD, excellent all round performance, cheaper and more compact than the elmarit. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted July 15, 2014 Share #12 Posted July 15, 2014 (edited) Goutui, I was in the same dilemma as you when I wanted to replace my Voigtlander 21 f/4 with a better lens. In the end I bought a 21 SEM. It was the best compromise of quality, size and price. I too use it a lot on travels. For outdoor use its perfect. For indoors especially in buildings, I often use it with the Leica table tripod. The latter is so compact that no one really objects to me using it if I need long exposures or using it against a door, pillar or other support. If wide open shots are really necessary, then the 21 Lux would be desired, but it does cost twice as much and is much larger. An alternative would be the Voigtlander 21 f/1.8 which is also a great lens for its price, though a trifle big and with a fixed hood. See this http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?page_id=130 Edited July 15, 2014 by rramesh 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted July 15, 2014 the Distagon is indeed an amazing lens... wish the had a zm version... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 15, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted July 15, 2014 Goutui, I was in the same dilemma as you when I wanted to replace my Voigtlander 21 f/4 with a better lens. In the end I bought a 21 SEM. It was the best compromise of quality, size and price. I too use it a lot on travels. For outdoor use its perfect. For indoors especially in buildings, I often use it with the Leica table tripod. The latter is so compact that no one really objects to me using it if I need long exposures or using it against a door, pillar or other support. If wide open shots are really necessary, then the 21 Lux would be desired, but it does cost twice as much and is much larger. An alternative would be the Voigtlander 21 f/1.8 which is also a great lens for its price, though a trifle big and with a fixed hood. See this http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?page_id=130 very useful link... thank you... I think i have made up my mind and decided to go for the 21 SEM... Thanks everyone!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 15, 2014 Share #15 Posted July 15, 2014 If you did not buy yet, why not rent one or both of the lenses currently in production? I own all three and use then each in different scenarios, but if you need a low light interior lens the SEM will work with tripod and the lux without. Price differences are substantial here so based on that if you want new then the SEM is the way to go. You did not mention if tripod was your interior shooting method. Since either lens will block your RF on the M9 you will be advised to use an OVF. On the M240 I love using the 21's with the EVF since it makes precise framing a snap. Maybe you should wait for more comment before making a snap decision. MarkP's comments parallel mine as far as when I might use each lens. Adan(?) uses his 21/2.8 more than I and has made many worthwhile comments about this lens. The search button will bring up his comments which I remember one being about Mandler lenses. Also "lct" has a 21/2.8 and might offer good comment too. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 15, 2014 Share #16 Posted July 15, 2014 Another lens worthy of consideration is the Voigtlander 21mm 1.8 For around half the price of the Summilux you could have both the SEM for its unmatched quality and a surprisingly wonderful 1.8 for low-light use. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted July 15, 2014 Share #17 Posted July 15, 2014 I use the CV Ultron 21/1.8 and is an outstanding lens at one fourth of the price of the Summilux 21. I've red in many posts that its performance is mostly the same of his most expensive cousin. I'm very satisfied with it. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/333474-cv-ultron-21mm-f-1-8-a.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/305492-cv-21-f-1-8-ultron.html http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/332962-m-240-voigtlander-ultron-21mm-f1.html 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goutui Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted July 16, 2014 really appreciate your recommendation... it would seem that getting a 21 SEM and a CV 21/1.8 could satisfy all my needs at a lower cost of getting a Lux... i think i am pretty sold on the 21 SEM so will get it first, and perhaps the CV 21/1.8 when I become more familiar with using a 21mm lens on a RF camera... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Printmaker Posted July 16, 2014 Share #19 Posted July 16, 2014 I had the 21 ZM Biogon for several years and it was a stellar performer optically. In fact, Sean Ried's tests showed it to be very close to the 21 Elmarit ASPH. However my copy had some mechanical issues and I replaced it with a 21 SEM which I find to be an outstanding lens. I rarely need the extra speed so the Lux was never a consideration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rirakuma Posted July 16, 2014 Share #20 Posted July 16, 2014 I had the 21 ZM Biogon for several years and it was a stellar performer optically. In fact, Sean Ried's tests showed it to be very close to the 21 Elmarit ASPH. However my copy had some mechanical issues and I replaced it with a 21 SEM which I find to be an outstanding lens. I rarely need the extra speed so the Lux was never a consideration. What mechanical issues did you have with the biogon? I'm actually considering the opposite direction, to sell my 21 SEM for a biogon mainly because I could really appreciate the better MFD. I tried to take some portraits with the 21SEM but they didn't look very pleasant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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