Al_OOF Posted July 3, 2014 Share #1 Posted July 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I discovered this forum about two months ago and now I wish, first of all, to thank all you for pleasant reading and for the useful informations that I have found ! I had, years ago, my first meeting with Leica when I bought a used M5. Then I continued taking a new M6. In last few years I stopped using them (maybe I am too lazy for the film vs digital…) but those lenses closed in the drawer made me feel very unconfortable. Finally I was able to take a used M9 (just three months ago) and so the story can continue… and It continues in the best way because I I got back the joy of photographing for fun ! (I have no intention to assert the supremacy of the Leica over other systems, but I must observe that in three months I took photos that, to me, seem better and satisfy me more than all that I made in the last few years, without Leica, and I think this is the most important thing...) After this little presentation… I have a problem for which to ask your opinion… I own a Summilux 50 (pre Asph) and with film it was all ok but with my old-new M9 something was not right in focus. So I made some specific test and I discovered that at 1 meter there was a front focus of about 10 centimetres at 1,4. I tought it was a bit “too” so I explained the situation to my local store and I was advised to send the lens to the technician. The technician was recommended from them to perform an accurate calibration, looking for the best compromise between focus and focus shift problem. Now the situation is that at 1 meter the front focus is 2 centimeters and from 2 meters to 5 it is about of 10 centimeters. Unfortunately, in the previous situation, I have not done tests at greater distances than 1 meter but I assume that the f.f. is now more toward the back. I thought that there was a way to have a wider field of precise focus at f. 1.4 so, considering the particular type of lens, do you think that the calibration is now correct in a “standard way of calibrating” ? (I was told that this was done to compensate the focus shift at medium distances when I close the aperture) Many thanks for all your advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 3, 2014 Posted July 3, 2014 Hi Al_OOF, Take a look here Which "standard" calibration for a Summilux 50 pre asph ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted July 3, 2014 Share #2 Posted July 3, 2014 Welcome to the forum . Did you have your calibration performed by Leica? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share #3 Posted July 3, 2014 Thanks Ict No, it was made by a repair workshop that at my shop assured as very experienced Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 3, 2014 Share #4 Posted July 3, 2014 (edited) I always discuss my issue and desired objective with the technician in advance, regardless of whether the service is from Leica or elsewhere (in the US, that would be DAG…don't know about Italy). A good technician will offer advice on what's possible. Compromise on focus is only good if one understands what's being compromised (or optimized), and why, and any alternatives…IMO. Some lenses exhibit focus shift; some don't….that could be in addition to any (mis)calibration issue and/or field curvature (which I believe the 50 Summilux pre-asph exhibits). Jeff Edited July 3, 2014 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted July 3, 2014 I always discuss my issue and desired objective with the technician in advance, regardless of whether the service is from Leica or elsewhere (in the US, that would be DAG…don't know about Italy). A good technician will offer advice on what's possible. Compromise on focus is only good if one understands what's being compromised (or optimized), and why, and any alternatives…IMO I agree Jeff... but I was inexperienced in the matter; actually it would be better to discuss it in advance, as you advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 3, 2014 Share #6 Posted July 3, 2014 I agree Jeff... but I was inexperienced in the matter; actually it would be better to discuss it in advance, as you advice. Never too late….you may want to call the technician (and not rely on the dealer). Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 3, 2014 Author Share #7 Posted July 3, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) but, besides this, do you think it might be normal (or quite normal) that I have not a distance, in medium range, in which there is a precise focus at full aperture ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 3, 2014 Share #8 Posted July 3, 2014 The Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph (at least my v2 and v3 samples) is rather soft in borders and corners but if you focus in the center of the frame, you should get accurate results with a well calibrated lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share #9 Posted July 4, 2014 Perhaps the calibration was made in this way because this particular lens suffers a little more in focus shift so the ten centimetres of front focus was intentionally left to compensate for this (I will try to speak with the technician to understand his work) Anyway it would be really strange to have a Summilux and not being able to focus wide open in medium range ! I realize that no lens is pefect and we have to pay some collateral price for the high image quality but, if we have to struggle with front/back focus or shift focus or to consider the ears to have the eyes in focus, this seems to me a contraddiction to the semplicity of photographing that should be the foundation of Leica philosophy... I already have made some thoughts about the new Aspherical version and perhaps this is now more justified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 4, 2014 Share #10 Posted July 4, 2014 I don't see more or less focus shift in asph or pre-asph Summiluxes 50 as none of them really suffers from this flaw. The asph version will give you more sharpness at f/1.4 and, to a lesser extent, f/2 and also in borders and corners at most apertures, but you will miss some softness at f/1.4 if you need some for portrait for instance. Horses for courses as usual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 4, 2014 Author Share #11 Posted July 4, 2014 I don't see more or less focus shift in asph or pre-asph Summiluxes 50 as none of them really suffers from this flaw. This is a useful information, thanks. Regarding the 50 asph, I made some photos in the shop in comparison with mine and I noticed two things in the asph: a quite perfect focusing and the absence of the little veil, like a light colour dominant, that is present in mine. For me these are very good characteristics. Perhaps I will be able to keep them both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 5, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted July 5, 2014 (edited) Excuse me for this new question but it is important for me in anticipation of the meeting that I will have with the technician. How much accuracy can I ask for the focus at 1.4 ? (for example 2 or 3 centimetres at medium distances or less or more...) How much is "normal" and correct to claim, considering the system and the lens ? Many thanks for any further help ! Edited July 5, 2014 by Al_OOF Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 6, 2014 Share #13 Posted July 6, 2014 I am not aware of tolerance margins in this matter, your technician should know better if he/she is authorised by Leica, but basically your lens should be accurate at full aperture IMHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 6, 2014 Share #14 Posted July 6, 2014 If the lens and the camera are adjusted correctly you should expect focus to be spot-on. Having said that, it is not simple for the user to determine misfocus, despite the optimistic claims of sites selling focus-checking gear. Basically your criterium should be whether you are happy with the focus of the images you take. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted July 9, 2014 Share #15 Posted July 9, 2014 I have on decent authority, Leica has changed the calibration with the advent of digital and tolerence was tightened recently. What standard is your repair shop using? I have checked three new lenses recently and found the new 75 APO front focuses twice as far front as the 35 and 50 back focus. We tried three cameras, two serviced, one new with same results. My personal opinion with no facts to back it up is the cost accountants have prevailed and the true focal lengths are no longer matched to a perfect focus helical for that specific lens. New manufacturing theory says make everything perfect and selective assembly is not required. Notice the true focal length is no longer engraved on the lens. In the "old days", I could check the RF at infinity and at one meter from the film plane ( have Leitz instructions on how to check). This no longer works. This is why race engines are blueprinted. Old guns were hand fitted, new are not unless you buy something special. Then you will be amazed. There was also a post where a lens sent for service was told he could get perfect close focus only at the expense of infinity being off. That confirms my suspicion that true focal lengths are no longer matched to proper focus mounts. Leica solution is live view which is never wrong. They will never admit hand fitting still is required because the cost is so high. You have 4 choices. Focus and move camera as required Live view Visoflex Get a pro grade Nikon so you can adjust the screen height to get perfect focus, D200, 300, 700, 800, D3 . All have a manual adjustment so you need not fool with screen shims. Consumer grades need shims. Do not adjust the mirror or you will cause other problems. you will not find out how this is done in the instructions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 9, 2014 Share #16 Posted July 9, 2014 Leica solution is lens calibration in the first place. Worked fine with a 90/2.8 for me and my 50/1.4 asph is presently in Wetzlar for this purpose. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted July 10, 2014 Share #17 Posted July 10, 2014 Perhaps as Jaap suggested your camera might also need calibration. Do not recall if you mentioned how your other M lenses perform on the M9. Something could still be out of calibration. Sometimes even my eyes are out of calibration too! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 10, 2014 Author Share #18 Posted July 10, 2014 Thanks for all your advices and informations ! I have had a meeting with the technician and now my summilux is ok. As you stated, the better thing is to speak with him in advance; I have learned the lesson My M9 was just calibrated and all my other lenses perform well... except, perhaps, my summilux 35 asph II. I have to check well how it works Going from film to digital open some new problems... Besides I had forgotten how good this lens is but also how it's not easy to focus properly at 1.4 with a 50. Now I am quite worried if I had to buy a new summilux (like the 50 asph) with issues of focus (as I read still happens). We all know how much these lenses cost and it seems to me very strange (not to say other words...) that it can still happen to having to send back a new one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted July 11, 2014 In theme with the reconciliation with my Summilux... I can not resist posting a picture, not important in the subject, but that shows what I love about this lens: three-dimensionality and tonal passages, almost like a medium format, and mellowness (but also with many details). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/229917-which-standard-calibration-for-a-summilux-50-pre-asph/?do=findComment&comment=2628534'>More sharing options...
jlindstrom Posted July 12, 2014 Share #20 Posted July 12, 2014 Now I am quite worried if I had to buy a new summilux (like the 50 asph) with issues of focus (as I read still happens). We all know how much these lenses cost and it seems to me very strange (not to say other words...) that it can still happen to having to send back a new one. Having owned the 50 summilux pre-asph and now the current 50 asph, unless there's a specific reason why you're not happy with the pre-asph - it's not worth the upgrade cost. I left Leica gear for a couple of months and my 50 pre-asph was lost there, so I got the new one.. but I don't see any compelling reasons why one should make the exchange. Especially so if you're not making any money on your photos or printing really big. Also worth noting is that, for me at least, the new asph is harder to focus due to shorter focus throw. I've been preaching for short focus throw for quite a while and thought I'd never say this..but the new 50 asph is borderline too short to make accurate focus @1.4 easy. The M9 and 50 pre-asph is fantastic combination! :-) //Juha Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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