Going wide

[teids]

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Hey,

 

After saving enough money I made the plunge and bought an m-e along with a 50 Lux ASPH. I could not be happier .

 

I used to shoot 50 on a DSLR and it was glued to my camera 80% of the time.

 

I particularly enjoy street photography but also like to take landscape and cityscapes (long exposures) shots. The 50 can be used for this purpose but obviously in some situations I am craving for a wide angle.

 

I am interested in the following two lenses and will be listing what are for me the pros and cons. I would however highly appreciate your inputs and experiences.

 

28 Summicron

fast lens in reasonable size

Frame lines can be seen without a viewfinder (I however wear glasses so I would need an external viewfinder anyway) I could however move my eye around.

28 would seem to be the "logical" choice to pair with a 50 as the gap would not be as big as if I would go for a 21

It might be easier to compose with a 28 then with a 21. The 21 would include so much in the frame.

Superb IQ

The lens is regarded as one of the best built lens produced by Leica

I am afraid that using a 28 will make me confused with regards to which lens should be my walk around lens.

Large hood...which could be changed

 

PRICE: the Leica store has a new lens which has been refurbished. The lens is therefore discounted by 10%. Claiming the tax back would give me a 25 percent price drop.

 

21 SEM

Use of EVF is critical for framing

I will be mainly using it for landscapes

As the lens is super wide it makes it easier to zone focus

Dramatic angle of view

Harder to compose

The 21SEM seems to be a fantastic lens for landscape.

Great size and weight

Slower lens

Excellent iq

More forgiving when it come to hand vibrations.

 

I have found some interesting thread in the forum with regards to this subject but I would love to have your inputs.and recommendations.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/282532-what-wide-angle-lens.html

 

Thank you very much for your help

[Guest odeon]

Please go down:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/307285-wide-angle-choice-21lux-28cron.html

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[Ecar]

The 28 is "safer" - and faster (1.5 stops may matter at night or if you want shallow DOF). If speed is not a key requirement, get the smaller and cheaper 28/2.8 Elmarit.

The FOV is very different from a 50, I wouldn't be worried about getting confused...

 

The 21 will be more of a challenge for composition - at least initially and mostly for street (you need to get really close; on the other hand, DOF will hide focusing imperfections). But moving out of one's comfort zone and learning can be interesting.

I see you have an M-E, so no EVF. However, you can use an external finder.

 

Both lenses are great for street and/or landscape - it's up to you to put them to good use.

 

EDIT: if it doesn't have to be Leica glass, you could also get both the CV 21/4 and the CV 28/2 for half the cost of the SEM...

Edited December 5, 2013 by Ecar

[algrove]

For the beautiful landscapes available in CH I would go for the SEM21. I have 28's, but prefer the 21 in your part of the world. Smaller and easier to hike with. Just practice near, middle and far objects in your frame.

[gpwhite]

I think you need to compare the look of the two lenses you are contemplating. They are sooo different in drawing, perspective and bite of the image.

 

The 28 Summicron is loved by many, and it was regarded as a benchmark lens when introduced about 10 years ago. It is possible to achieve a little bit of separation @ f/2, but nothing like a 35 FLE. For me, the 50 Summilux you have is superior to the 28 F/2. I sold mine, as it did not seem very lively on the M240.

 

All of the lenses in the SEM family are superlative for sharpness, fine detail and saturation. You cannot get separation with them unless you compose ~ 1m. For my taste, there are no wide-angles in any format that compare with the Elmars... they are unmatched. My favorite is the 24 Elmar-- just an exceptional lens in every way that I shoot only vis the M OVF (no external VF).

 

Finally, the Zeiss Biogon ZM 25 f/2.8 is stellar!! It does not have the same bite as the Leica SEM and perhaps less overall contrast, but renders excellent sharpness and detail. At very close focus, it outperforms the Elmar.... and you can get a little separation @ f/2.8. I use my Biogon ~.6m @ f/2.8 for portraits, and there is no distortion that I can detect.

 

Check them all out.

[teids]

The 28 is "safer" - and faster (1.5 stops may matter at night or if you want shallow DOF). If speed is not a key requirement, get the smaller and cheaper 28/2.8 Elmarit.

The FOV is very different from a 50, I wouldn't be worried about getting confused...

 

The 21 will be more of a challenge for composition - at least initially and mostly for street (you need to get really close; on the other hand, DOF will hide focusing imperfections). But moving out of one's comfort zone and learning can be interesting.

I see you have an M-E, so no EVF. However, you can use an external finder.

 

Both lenses are great for street and/or landscape - it's up to you to put them to good use.

 

EDIT: if it doesn't have to be Leica glass, you could also get both the CV 21/4 and the CV 28/2 for half the cost of the SEM...

 

For the beautiful landscapes available in CH I would go for the SEM21. I have 28's, but prefer the 21 in your part of the world. Smaller and easier to hike with. Just practice near, middle and far objects in your frame.

 

I think you need to compare the look of the two lenses you are contemplating. They are sooo different in drawing, perspective and bite of the image.

 

The 28 Summicron is loved by many, and it was regarded as a benchmark lens when introduced about 10 years ago. It is possible to achieve a little bit of separation @ f/2, but nothing like a 35 FLE. For me, the 50 Summilux you have is superior to the 28 F/2. I sold mine, as it did not seem very lively on the M240.

 

All of the lenses in the SEM family are superlative for sharpness, fine detail and saturation. You cannot get separation with them unless you compose ~ 1m. For my taste, there are no wide-angles in any format that compare with the Elmars... they are unmatched. My favorite is the 24 Elmar-- just an exceptional lens in every way that I shoot only vis the M OVF (no external VF).

 

Finally, the Zeiss Biogon ZM 25 f/2.8 is stellar!! It does not have the same bite as the Leica SEM and perhaps less overall contrast, but renders excellent sharpness and detail. At very close focus, it outperforms the Elmar.... and you can get a little separation @ f/2.8. I use my Biogon ~.6m @ f/2.8 for portraits, and there is no distortion that I can detect.

 

Check them all out.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and for giving me your inputs..

 

I skipped the deal at the Leica Store and will keep on scratching my head in order to determine which lens would suit me the best.

 

P.S My apologies I meant OVF and not EVF.

[Bill W]

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You might also consider the 24 Elmar f3.8. It a small lens like the 21. You can pick one up used for a very reasonable price.

[Photoskeptic]

I have the 24 3.8 Elmar-M ASPH. Just a super WA. If it's sharpness you're after, lens don't much sharper than this one.

[lct]

+1

[otto.f]

Please go down:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/307285-wide-angle-choice-21lux-28cron.html

 

And many more threads on precisely this topic

[Guest Marc G.]

Both lenses are pretty awesome. The 21 SE is the sharpest wide angle you can get and very small. But a lot slower than the 28 Summicron which is my favorite lens on the M9. Beautiful rendering paired with wide aperture and serious sharpness. Some yearn for a re-do of the 28/2. I say it's as strong as it always has been and delivers one stunning image after the other.

[leafster]

Hi teids,

 

I'm not a pro, but I just hope to share my personal opinion as I was in a similar situation. I've been using M9P and 50 lux exclusively for 2 years or so, but I wanted to add a wide angle lens. My consideration is also 21 SEM or 28 cron.

 

Just 2 weeks ago, I finally decided to buy 28 cron. And I went solo for 8 days trip to Kyoto and Tokyo with 50 lux & 28 cron two days after I bought the cron. To my own surprise, despite how much I like my 50 lux, I only used 50 lux on the first day evening. Throughout my trip, 28 cron glue to my m9p. Main reason is because I find wide angle fits better in my case to capture those sites that I visit, and no problem doing street. Frankly there are certain scene I wish I can switch to 50 lux, but having to switch lens back and fore in the cold really troubles for me.

 

After 8 days on 28 cron usage, I think I probably won't be getting 21 SEM for now as I already find that 28 is wide enough for me. I'm new to 28 angle of view and certainly encounter many troubles while trying to learn how to use 28. Still more to learn for me.

 

I can't comment about 21 SEM because I don't have it. But if you like your 50 lux rendering, I think you will like 28 cron. If you are already used to the weight of 50 lux, 28 cron is really not much of a concern. As for the default hood, is really down to personal liking. Having said all these, do not discount the 21 SEM, perhaps it might suit your needs better.

 

The best case is if you can rent both lens to try, you will probably have a better idea. If I get a chance to try 21 SEM, I might lust for it For now, I know I will be keeping my 28 cron along with 50 lux. What I learnt from my trip is that another M will be the ideal case. Sadly, not going to happen.

 

There are many other discussion to it in the forum, I hope you will find them useful.

 

Cheers

[rirakuma]

Hi teids, I think you should decide your purchase based on your style of shooting. If you enjoy street photography, 28mm is probably one of the best focal length for that field. Some find it wide enough but I personally love the 21mm focal length. Its a very engaging lens but it rewards beautifully when used right. If you enjoy shooting street over landscape I think the 28mm may be better suited for you.

[otto.f]

There are three 24's between 28 and 21. What is actually the idea behind the choice between 28 and 21?

You cannot use a 21 without a separate viewfinder, whereas a 24 can be done. In streetphotography it is really disturbing to change between two viewfinders all the time, for composition and exposure

Edited December 16, 2013 by otto.f

[Ecar]

There are three 24's between 28 and 21. What is actually the idea behind the choice between 28 and 21?

You cannot use a 21 without a separate viewfinder, whereas a 24 can be done. In streetphotography it is really disturbing to change between two viewfinders all the time, for composition and exposure

 

True. Unless you have an M240 and are happy to use LV or the EVF...

Even without the electronic help, zone focus with a wide angle is not that difficult to achieve either, given the DOF - and lends itself well to street work.

But I agree that 24mm is a great focal length for street - somewhat underrated.

[teids]

Both lenses are pretty awesome. The 21 SE is the sharpest wide angle you can get and very small. But a lot slower than the 28 Summicron which is my favorite lens on the M9. Beautiful rendering paired with wide aperture and serious sharpness. Some yearn for a re-do of the 28/2. I say it's as strong as it always has been and delivers one stunning image after the other.

 

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.

 

Hi teids,

 

I'm not a pro, but I just hope to share my personal opinion as I was in a similar situation. I've been using M9P and 50 lux exclusively for 2 years or so, but I wanted to add a wide angle lens. My consideration is also 21 SEM or 28 cron.

 

Just 2 weeks ago, I finally decided to buy 28 cron. And I went solo for 8 days trip to Kyoto and Tokyo with 50 lux & 28 cron two days after I bought the cron. To my own surprise, despite how much I like my 50 lux, I only used 50 lux on the first day evening. Throughout my trip, 28 cron glue to my m9p. Main reason is because I find wide angle fits better in my case to capture those sites that I visit, and no problem doing street. Frankly there are certain scene I wish I can switch to 50 lux, but having to switch lens back and fore in the cold really troubles for me.

 

After 8 days on 28 cron usage, I think I probably won't be getting 21 SEM for now as I already find that 28 is wide enough for me. I'm new to 28 angle of view and certainly encounter many troubles while trying to learn how to use 28. Still more to learn for me.

 

I can't comment about 21 SEM because I don't have it. But if you like your 50 lux rendering, I think you will like 28 cron. If you are already used to the weight of 50 lux, 28 cron is really not much of a concern. As for the default hood, is really down to personal liking. Having said all these, do not discount the 21 SEM, perhaps it might suit your needs better.

 

The best case is if you can rent both lens to try, you will probably have a better idea. If I get a chance to try 21 SEM, I might lust for it For now, I know I will be keeping my 28 cron along with 50 lux. What I learnt from my trip is that another M will be the ideal case. Sadly, not going to happen.

 

There are many other discussion to it in the forum, I hope you will find them useful.

 

Leafster, thank you so much for sharing your experience. Good to know that you faced the same dilema in the past.

 

Cheers

 

Hi teids, I think you should decide your purchase based on your style of shooting. If you enjoy street photography, 28mm is probably one of the best focal length for that field. Some find it wide enough but I personally love the 21mm focal length. Its a very engaging lens but it rewards beautifully when used right. If you enjoy shooting street over landscape I think the 28mm may be better suited for you.

 

There are three 24's between 28 and 21. What is actually the idea behind the choice between 28 and 21?

You cannot use a 21 without a separate viewfinder, whereas a 24 can be done. In streetphotography it is really disturbing to change between two viewfinders all the time, for composition and exposure

 

 

I have been used to shooting street with a 50 and not swiping too much between lenses. Like Leafster said in some situation it is not convenient to switch between lenses.

 

Street is definitely my preferred subject.

 

When I mentioned that having a 28 and a 50 will make me confused I meant that I would always be undecided as which lens should be my walk around. In the end I guess it would lead me to buying a 35 hehehehhe

 

The reason why I left out the 24s is that I thought either I go wide and fast and go for the 28 or go super wide and go for the 21. I told myself that if I go through the trouble of mounting a viewfinder I might as well take advantage of an even more dramatic angle of view.

 

Your comments have been really helpful even though I am still undecided

 

I will definitely let you know what s my final choice.

 

p.s In the meantime, I am fully enjoying the 50. Some photos that I recently took in Amsterdam

 

Amsterdam 11-2013 - a set on Flickr

[otto.f]

"The reason why I left out the 24s is that I thought either I go wide and fast and go for the 28 or go super wide and go for the 21. "

:D. Arty logic, fine with me btw.

[teids]

"The reason why I left out the 24s is that I thought either I go wide and fast and go for the 28 or go super wide and go for the 21. "

:D. Arty logic, fine with me btw.

 

Nothing personal against the 24s

 

Anyone using the thumb up with the external viewfinder?

[NZDavid]

I really like the 2.8/24 Elmarit-Asph. I also have a 2.8/21 Zeiss, which is first class. A 24 or 28 would be more general purpose. Those few millimeters of focal length make a big difference at the wide end!

 

28mm = 76º FOV

 

24mm = 84º FOV

 

21mm = 92º FOV

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[LeicaPassion]

Anyone using the thumb up with the external viewfinder?

 

Yes, with the 21 bright line.