Used Summicron 35mm or New Summarit?

[markpsf]

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As I continue to research the still slightly remote possibility of an M9, I'm clear that initially I could afford only one lens and for my street shooting I'd want a 35mm. These are the two choices, I was going to say "in my price range" but more accurately, "almost within my price range."

Assuming the used one is near mint, but always with a slight risk involved, which would you choose?

 

Thanks.

 

MP

[chaikit thanakamanusorn]

35 cron asph has better build quality.. and focus closer than summarit

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[reven]

Well I prefer the Summarit. Even smaller the quality is as good. I haven't seen a real advantage of the cron, except a little faster and the ap. ring is a little nicer to handle.

 

I would not want to buy a cron used if I did not know the seller in person. To much risk. I would prefer the summarit than. However used from a dealer with a 1 year war. or something is a different subject.

[noah_addis]

If you decide to sell you'll lose more on a new Summarit. A used 'Cron should sell for close to what you buy it for.

 

The 'Cron is a tad faster, the Summarit a bit smaller. Other than that it comes down to personal preference over the look of the images from each lens.

 

You might want to check out Sean Reid's site before deciding, but other than that there's no substitute for testing each lens and deciding which one you prefer.

[kenneth]

Buy a 35mm Summicron M asph 6bit- mint second hand from an authorised Leica dealer that way you get a guarantee and piece of mind and make a major saving in new prices

[jruffolo]

I was in the same situation, and ended up going with a used 35 summicron asph from tony at popflash.

[lars_bergquist]

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My impression is not that Summarit lenses are of a lesser build quality than Summicron etc. lenses. It is in any case vastly better than most of what Canikon & Co. are selling us. And bad things can happen to Summicron lenses, like the front part of a 28mm Summicron working loose. That has happened to me, and to others. Shit does happen, even in the best families.

 

My own 75mm Summarit is a well-built lens with that old time mechanical feel.

 

The old man from the Brass Age

[batmobile]

if you need speed and can deal with high contrast, get the cron asph.

if you want speed, don't need the best performance wide open and can deal with an old lens with iffy build and like tiny lenses a V4 cron might suit (unless you have large hands).

if you want a newer/new lens and f2.5 is OK (and 10cm further min focus) and a more modest contrast, look at the summarit. This might go best of all with a M9 due to the more gentle contrast.

[jonoslack]

HI There

Well, I really like my little summarit - the build quality and IQ seem to me to be fine, and the slightly gentler rendering than the 'cron suits me as well.

 

So if it were me I'd go for the summarit.

[michali]

HI There

Well, I really like my little summarit - the build quality and IQ seem to me to be fine, and the slightly gentler rendering than the 'cron suits me as well.

 

So if it were me I'd go for the summarit.

 

I have both the 35mm Summarit & 35mm Summicron (newest version). I must say the that I'm really impressed with the Summarit it delivers excellent results, the lens is easy to focus, the images have a lovely "creamier" feel to them. The Summicron is a more contrasty lens as mentioned above, so images look a little harsher than the Summarit. The Summicron also has a longer focus throw which takes some getting used to.

 

If it's not speed you're after, go for the Summarit it is an outstanding little lens, you can't go wrong with it IMO.

[jlancasterd]

35 cron asph has better build quality.. and focus closer than summarit

 

How do you know that the Summicron has 'better build quality'? have you given both lenses an endurance test?

 

I've just bought a Summarit 35mm and would say that the build quality seems excellent. Focussing is smooth, the finish is excellent, and it produces good, sharp photos.

Edited October 4, 2009 by jlancasterd

[Overgaard]

I think there's an issue with the screwmount of the Summarits lens shade - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Another question: What's the difference between Summicron ASPH, Summicron IV and Summaron in therms of shooting against the light. The older Summicrons seem fo be unable to hold the light - sunbeams in the scene just blow all over the frame. Looked kind of ok in film, but in digital it makes things wey milky and greyish.

[sean_reid]

If you decide to sell you'll lose more on a new Summarit. A used 'Cron should sell for close to what you buy it for.

 

The 'Cron is a tad faster, the Summarit a bit smaller. Other than that it comes down to personal preference over the look of the images from each lens.

 

You might want to check out Sean Reid's site before deciding, but other than that there's no substitute for testing each lens and deciding which one you prefer.

 

Thanks for expressing that POV Noah. The express purpose of those lens tests is to describe how each lens performs and draws relative to others of the same focal length (not to express an individual opinion, per se, about which lens is "best" or "worst").

 

To the OP:

 

The build quality of the Summarit lenses is excellent. The 35 is slower than the Summicron and it shows slightly lower contrast (which can be a pro or con depending on what kind of picture one wants to make initially).

 

The lower cost of the Summarit lenses comes in part from modularity (among the various Summarit lenses) and in part from using simpler optical designs that rely less on exotic and expensive types of glass. But there's no reason to believe the lenses compromise build quality at all.

 

The two 35 mm lens I use often (and 35 is my favorite focal length on the M9) are my 35 Summicron ASPH and my CV 35/2.5 Skopar. If the Skopar did not exist, that second lens would likely be a 35 Summarit. But those are just my personal preferences based on the work I do and my tendency to match lens contrast and subject lighting.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[sean_reid]

I think there's an issue with the screwmount of the Summarits lens shade - correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Another question: What's the difference between Summicron ASPH, Summicron IV and Summaron in therms of shooting against the light. The older Summicrons seem fo be unable to hold the light - sunbeams in the scene just blow all over the frame. Looked kind of ok in film, but in digital it makes things wey milky and greyish.

 

Hi Thorsten,

 

I haven't tested the latter two lenses but the 35 Cron ASPH is more resistant to flare that either the 35 Summarit or 35 Skopar. The ZM 35 Biogon is also very resistant to flare.

 

If I'm using the M9 and shooting into the light, such as during the "getting ready" part of a wedding shoot, I now prefer to use the 35 Cron ASPH. Flare, for better or worse, seems to be more obvious in M9 pictures than in those from the M8/M8.2 (presumably because the files are reaching out further into the outer zones of the image circle).

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[batmobile]

Puts I think referred to the asph as being less not more flare resistant than the Summarit, so I have no idea what to think. I have the Summarit, a PII and a Biogon 35 f2. The latter I have used a lot and is almost impossible to make flare in normal use and the Summarit I dont know enough about yet. No flare so far though and thats without a hood. The P2 has a hood and seems pretty resilient too.

[noah_addis]

I haven't had flare problems with the 35 'Cron ASPH. I just bought a new copy (in black paint, also from Popflash) and it performs just like my old one, which I had sold, regrettably, since 35mm wasn't a big focal length for me on the M8. My new one is off being coded by Leica NJ but it tested well on my M8, there seemed to be no problems with focus shift and I had forgotten how much I liked the look of the lens. Even more so once I get the M9 I'm sure.

 

The 35mm will likely be my most used focal length on the M9. I have the 'Cron ASPH as well as a 'Lux Asph. The Cron has a more contrasty look but I don't think it's as harsh or clinical as some suggest. It most definitely has more contrast than, say, a Cron IV, but despite the contrast it seems to hold detail well throughout the tonal range. If you expose correctly and don't blow the highlights, it has a wonderful way of keeping contrast even in the dark shadows. For B&W work especially, I like to shoot in somewhat flat light, so this lens is brilliant since it really punches up the contrast and is very sharp, even wide open.

 

With the M9 I think I'll go back to my film habits, which were to shoot the 'Cron ASPH for street work, traveling with one lens, and most other situations. I'll carry the 'Lux only when I think I'll need the extra stop of light or when I want a softer look.

 

I thought about the Summarit too. I did try one briefly when I first tested out the M8 and it was a great lens.

 

When I decided I needed another mid-speed 35, it came down to a few main points:

 

The extra speed of the lens is important to me, since it is a main lens for me and even though I have the 'Lux as well, I don't often carry both at the same time. I mainly have both as backup, so one stays safe at home or in the hotel.

 

The closer focusing distance is important. I often work with one lens only and so if I want to do a detail shot I need to be able to focus as close as possible.

 

The build quality of the Summarit is very good, probably equal to most Leica lenses. The Summicron though, especially in the black paint finish (black paint lenses are made of brass), still feels much better to me.

 

I may actually prefer the slightly softer contrast of the Summarit, but the difference isn't enough to make up for these issues which are more important for my work.

 

Like Sean said, neither lens is best or worst, they're just different. And I'll add that you really can't go wrong either way. Both are incredible lenses.

 

The great thing about Sean's review site (and he's not paying me, I'm just a happy customer!), is that his tests are done under controlled situations but also reflect how people use lenses in the real world. So short of renting both lenses it's the next best thing.

[sean_reid]

Puts I think referred to the asph as being less not more flare resistant than the Summarit, so I have no idea what to think. I have the Summarit, a PII and a Biogon 35 f2. The latter I have used a lot and is almost impossible to make flare in normal use and the Summarit I dont know enough about yet. No flare so far though and thats without a hood. The P2 has a hood and seems pretty resilient too.

 

If you ever get a chance to test the two lenses (side by side) for flare resistance then you'll quickly see what's what. Lower contrast comes primarily from flare (of various kinds). Sometimes that lower contrast is desirable but the two are tied. Shoot a lower contrast lens into the sun and it will flare (sometimes in a lovely way). If you ever have the pleasure of meeting Peter Karbe, he'll quickly be able to confirm the facts for you.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

Edited October 4, 2009 by sean_reid

[Åmund]

 

The build quality of the Summarit is very good, probably equal to most Leica lenses. The Summicron though, especially in the black paint finish (black paint lenses are made of brass), still feels much better to me.

 

.

What are silver ones made of?

 

Åmund

[lars_bergquist]

Formerly, silver chrome lenses all had outer parts made of brass, because aluminum did not take chrome plating well. (Black chrome is not plated, but anodised.) So there was as a rule a considerable weight differential between silver and black chrome. Nowadays silver chrome lenses seem to be aluminum too, so plating techniques must have improved, and the weight differential is gone with the newest lenses.

 

The old man from the Brass Age

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[Guest Ansel_Adams]

I am reviving this thread because I have read often that the Summarit-M is more resistant to flare than the Summicron ASPH. But it appears that this must just be an internet myth?