identity crisis ... or even worse ?!

[ndjambrose]

Originally Posted by offshore

Set it on "A" for aperture priority, hyperfocal focus the lens st f8 and be there. Now you have a point and shoot with remarkable image quality that is easy to use. The menu is much less complicated than most point and shoots.

Find me a novice photographer who understands (i) hyperfocal focusing; (ii) the concept of aperture priority; (iii) knows what f8 means. And then try and repeat the exercise with them using an MP :-)

[bill]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

... Perhaps you might care to point to the post?

Tsk, Neil, it's probably in the same place as my post referring to the M8...

Regards,

Bill

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Find me a novice photographer who understands (i) hyperfocal focusing; (ii) the concept of aperture priority; (iii) knows what f8 means. And then try and repeat the exercise with them using an MP :-)

Find me a novice photographer who can't research and understand these concepts in a matter of a couple of hours. If one isn't willing to put forth a bit of effort, there should be no expectation of success.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Find me a novice photographer who understands (i) hyperfocal focusing; (ii) the concept of aperture priority; (iii) knows what f8 means. And then try and repeat the exercise with them using an MP :-)

Give me any novice photographer and I'll teach them your list and the sunny f16 rule in less than 10 minutes. Film camera exposure rules and operation carry over to digital.

[stnami]

as we do .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..................... throw bricks

[ndjambrose]

Originally Posted by offshore

Give me any novice photographer and I'll teach them your list and the sunny f16 rule in less than 10 minutes. Film camera exposure rules and operation carry over to digital.

Kind of proved my point then, haven't you. The same novice photographer can learn to use a digicam in about 5 seconds. ("This is the button - just click it".)

[Jamie Roberts]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Kind of proved my point then, haven't you. The same novice photographer can learn to use a digicam in about 5 seconds. ("This is the button - just click it".)

Uh, so what you're saying is that m cameras aren't for novices? LOL!!.. that doesn't mean they're not easy to use. They are, given you know what you want to do... novices, by definition, don't know what they can do let alone what they want to do

For instance, try manually focusing an 85 1.2L Canon in the dark. Great lens--hard (or impossible, actually) to focus manually and quickly.

@ Vic--we'll have to see what the marketing folks come up with here. I'm not holding my breath for a great campaign, given what they've had before, but you never know.

[ndjambrose]

Jamie - yes, that's pretty much my point, albeit lost in the depths of the chatter :-)

The M is simple to use. But that's not the same as easy to use. There's a prior requirement for some expertise before the camera will deliver. But, if one has the expertise, then it's delightfully straightforward because there are no interferences.

The observation I made early on in this thread is that a generalised marketing statement based on ease of use isn't really adequate or appropriate to an M, given the competitive landscape and proliferation of point and shoots. Ease of use has long since been redefined to something that an M is not.

Far better to have a campaign oriented around simplicity.

[stnami]

,,,,,,,, coupled with photoshop, a camera is a great playstation

[erl]

Yep! so's a box of matches, ........... and you don't even need photoshop.

[stnami]

......yea but the fine for starting fires is a bit steep

[rob_x2004]

And the copshop doesnt exactly come for free. Crisis for your identity though if you go down for it.

[stnami]

who's him?

[charlesphoto99]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Jamie - yes, that's pretty much my point, albeit lost in the depths of the chatter :-)

The M is simple to use. But that's not the same as easy to use. There's a prior requirement for some expertise before the camera will deliver. But, if one has the expertise, then it's delightfully straightforward because there are no interferences.

The observation I made early on in this thread is that a generalised marketing statement based on ease of use isn't really adequate or appropriate to an M, given the competitive landscape and proliferation of point and shoots. Ease of use has long since been redefined to something that an M is not.

Far better to have a campaign oriented around simplicity.

Years ago an ex-girlfriend of mine bought her father an M6 and 35mm lens for his birthday, knowing that he always lusted after one, a fact that resurfaced due to her dating me (a pro M user).

She gave the camera to her father on a family vacation in Italy. He was extremely grateful but also totally befuddled. He hung the M6 around his neck and then continued shooting the rest of the vacation with his beat up old Minolta (or whatever) p&s. I don't recall seeing him take a single pic with the M and I'm 100% certain it ended up on a shelf at home collecting dust.

For some it's a big gulf between what they want and what they truly need. I know lots of very rich people who wouldn't know what to do with a Leica of any stripe even though it would be a trivial expense compared to their wine purchases. It's just not on their radar.

William,

On further thought I think Leica could spin using amateur photos to good benefit. Lets just hope they don't muck it up.

[ejd]

Vic -- I see you are offering your MP and a set of lenses for sale. What's up? I'm surprised, whatever there is, above, on this thread. You seem such a passionate photographer. Rgds, John

[vic vic]

john hi...
the mp has nothing to do with this thread :-) the mp is a new camera i have received just a while ago and not sure i need it, as well as some other accessories i offer there.
the issues i have pointed out in this thread are also from the field of "image making" in many ways, but different "image", the type of branding, marketing strategies etc. by the way, i have pointed out almost all the past/current/future "image/brand" problems of leica almost immediately after leica released the M8 and the way they handled the problems of release and the PR afterwards.
i was interested in M8 in some way, at least for fun, and initially was here on the forum to hear from people who use it, and the only thing i saw is one big mess and nonsense. some may remember - when i was saying something about M8 fuss, then i was automatically a "bad person" :-)
when i saw an email from andreas to the forum members, i was simply shocked... seriously... the first thing i had in mind - is it called campaign? what an infantile attitude to promotion etc ....

anyway, my passion to photography is totally independent of leica promotion/imaging programs :-)

[offshore]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Kind of proved my point then, haven't you. The same novice photographer can learn to use a digicam in about 5 seconds. ("This is the button - just click it".)

I'm not certain that anyone has figured out your point in this thread other than to keep beating a dead horse.

[frc]

Marketing to the pro's, not necessary. They know what to buy.
Marketing a Leica.
What does the potential customer want to read and know about the potential product? Which heroes / celebs are atractive?
Young new heroes, HCB, me, Victor, name it.
Ask yourself, did you buy your Leica products because of a campain, ads, heroes.
I didn't.
Did you?

Do you consider your gear a ,,product"

It makes me feel like standing in front of one of these coffee machines.

-Choose product-

-Product in preparation-

-Product ready-

-Take out product-

Yikes!

Leica = Nescafe*

[pierovitch]

Make it personal.

" a Leica for your life "

a different emphasis on words can give different meanings.
let the buyer define what it means to them.

something makes you press that shutter release that is very individual to each owner.