identity crisis ... or even worse ?!

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by sbelyaev

Everything that the author of this thread mentioned is correct.
M8 is not quieter, easier to use, sharper that the other cameras. It is simply different.
I think some people would use Leica only because it is not a common mass-produced camera. I feel that it is like a status symbol, therefore it should be treated accordingly.
There is a limited number of people who are familiar with this system and have chosen to use it for various reasons. They will continue to use Leica no matter what.
People how are unfamiliar with Leica will never pay at least $10k for a privilege to own one.

In my opinion Leica should:

1. Sell this cameras directly to people who have money or good credit. ?Malls, luxury hotels, airports, concert halls, major office buildings. How difficult is it to get a knowledgeable sales people and to put some booths (mobile booths) to the above-mentioned locations? Apple did it, Bose did it. Why not Leica?

2. Lease the camera and lenses to the same category of people. People pay $250-500/month for their $15k-30k cars. For those who like to be different this amount of money should not be an obstacle.

3. Avoid marketing this camera to professional photographers and enthusiasts. These people know what they want/need.

Just free advise.

Pure, unadulterated bunk.

Those of us who use the Leicas to make a living don't give a damn about the "status" of the camera. Many of us have multiple systems that include DSLRs, MFs, LFs--along with our Leicas. We use whatever tool best fits the assignment and gets the job done right. For many of us, myself included, that often happens to be the M8 and some of the best lenses ever made.

Very few people are going to invest the amount of money needed to put together a working M system simply for the status. They do it because they have seen what the cameras are capable of producing.

The free advice you have just offered is worth exactly that--nothing!

[sbelyaev]

Thank you. A very nice response (as expected).

As you probably don't konw people buy things because of two resons.
1. They need.
2. They want.

Only few pepole really need Leica.

The company, to be successful, should make people want this camera.

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by sbelyaev

Thank you. A very nice response (as expected).

As you probably don't konw people buy things because of two resons.
1. They need.
2. They want.

Only few pepole really need Leica.

The company, to be successful, should make people want this camera.

You seem to ignore the fact that people might WANT something because they have a NEED for it. They are not necessarily exclusive and independent of each other.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

I don't think anyone is disputing that.



Hmm. Are you suggesting that people aren't allowed to have opinions about the campaign? Which would be beautifully ironic, since it rather goes against the grain of your own remark.

Fortunately in such a free world the customer is also entitled to have opinions about products and the way they're marketed. In fact it's a healthy sign of customer interest and passion for the product. Nothing is more damning for a marketing campaign than zero noise from the customer base.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion in a free world. As a matter of fact there is a saying about opinions as everyone has one. Most of what I've seen expressed as opinions is just what you've stated ZERO noise. When it comes to opinions on this forum that call other peoples work "crappy" because they have had the courage to put their work out there for the Leica campaign then that opinion has no place here or anywhere else.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by fotografr

Pure, unadulterated bunk.

Those of us who use the Leicas to make a living don't give a damn about the "status" of the camera. Many of us have multiple systems that include DSLRs, MFs, LFs--along with our Leicas. We use whatever tool best fits the assignment and gets the job done right. For many of us, myself included, that often happens to be the M8 and some of the best lenses ever made.

Very few people are going to invest the amount of money needed to put together a working M system simply for the status. They do it because they have seen what the cameras are capable of producing.

The free advice you have just offered is worth exactly that--nothing!

Here, here! Now ndjambrose here is an opinion that actually makes sense.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by sbelyaev

Everything that the author of this thread mentioned is correct.
M8 is not quieter, easier to use, sharper that the other cameras. It is simply different.
I think some people would use Leica only because it is not a common mass-produced camera. I feel that it is like a status symbol, therefore it should be treated accordingly.
There is a limited number of people who are familiar with this system and have chosen to use it for various reasons. They will continue to use Leica no matter what.
People how are unfamiliar with Leica will never pay at least $10k for a privilege to own one.

In my opinion Leica should:

1. Sell this cameras directly to people who have money or good credit. ?Malls, luxury hotels, airports, concert halls, major office buildings. How difficult is it to get a knowledgeable sales people and to put some booths (mobile booths) to the above-mentioned locations? Apple did it, Bose did it. Why not Leica?

2. Lease the camera and lenses to the same category of people. People pay $250-500/month for their $15k-30k cars. For those who like to be different this amount of money should not be an obstacle.

3. Avoid marketing this camera to professional photographers and enthusiasts. These people know what they want/need.

Just free advise.

Complete BS. 99% of Leica M users buy the camera for what is is and does, not for the status it projects. That would be pointless anyway. A too large proportion of the public doesn't even recognize it. A Rolex, trophy wife or multimillion dollar yacht is far more effective as an status builder. And a real snob would not be seen dead in a mere 30k$ car. Far too plebeian.

[erl]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Complete BS. 99% of Leica M users buy the camera for what is is and does, not for the status it projects. That would be pointless anyway. A too large proportion of the public doesn't even recognize it. A Rolex, trophy wife or multimillion dollar yacht is far more effective as an status builder. And a real snob would not be seen dead in a mere 30k$ car. Far too plebeian.

Geez!! I got it wrong . . . again! I went for the Leica. Well, it does bring me a great return. Better than any of the above. (Hope "she who must be obeyed" does not read this! )

[jaapv]

How is your Law practice? Still solving crimes by accident?

[offshore]

[quote=ndjambrose;560452]Limited instrumentation doesn't necessarily equate with easy to use. In fact, for many people (especially novices), the M is a remarkably difficult camera to use. Contrast the complexities of RF focusing and manual metering with the "just click here" approach of a compact.

Set it on "A" for aperture priority, hyperfocal focus the lens st f8 and be there. Now you have a point and shoot with remarkable image quality that is easy to use. The menu is much less complicated than most point and shoots.

[bill]

[quote=offshore;563254]

Originally Posted by ndjambrose

Limited instrumentation doesn't necessarily equate with easy to use. In fact, for many people (especially novices), the M is a remarkably difficult camera to use. Contrast the complexities of RF focusing and manual metering with the "just click here" approach of a compact.

Set it on "A" for aperture priority, hyperfocal focus the lens st f8 and be there. Now you have a point and shoot with remarkable image quality that is easy to use. The menu is much less complicated than most point and shoots.

There are other Ms besides the 8...

Regards,

Bill

[offshore]

[quote=bill;563283]

Originally Posted by offshore

There are other Ms besides the 8...

Regards,

Bill

Yes Bill, but the point you tried to make was in regard to the M8.

[bill]

[quote=offshore;563492]

Originally Posted by bill

Yes Bill, but the point you tried to make was in regard to the M8.

??? Not in this reality...!???

Regards,

Bill

[wattsy]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Complete BS. 99% of Leica M users buy the camera for what is is and does, not for the status it projects.

Sorry Jaap, but I find it hard to believe this. Are you seriously suggesting that 99% of Leica M users have identified a photographic need that only a Leica M can fulfil? Talk to any Leica dealer and they will have any number of tales about dozy sods who have bought into the system without knowing anything about it.

Originally Posted by jaapv

That would be pointless anyway. A too large proportion of the public doesn't even recognize it.

I think you'll find that it is the lack of mass market appeal and recognition that is the attraction for many a Leica dilettante.

[vic vic]

excuses me all the leica admirers, which think that only they love leica camera, and any one else being a little critical is bad person :-)

where from all your talks is CAMPAIGN talk ??
according to u, leica doesnt even need a campaign for at least ten years ahead.
where is the question of identity ?

even the M-campaign categories are doubted on this forum by many, which is a pretty clear indication of the goal and the questions (the so called campaign) correlation. if this is the only campaign that leica plans, then it can call it an "entertaining program for leica and forum enthusiasts" :-)
look at the nikon/nikkor for example (with galleries)... nikon doesnt even shows images for sharpness etc... campaign (especially with the level of image quality today) cannot be build on those as that... on contrary, nikon adresses to various segments of pro photographers .. it shows and interviews a fashion photographer, a photojournalist, a sport photographer wedding etc.... all that to create a sense about where (what type of applications) the camera BELONGS. to continue with the example of nikon, it creates an interactive AD on the website, which is more readable, interesting to people who really want to buy a serious camera. the last attempt leica tried to use the power of internet AD was with that 1.5 . love story, and i would not describe it any further :-) identity crisis...

all the great leica followers talk with so much enthusiasm and passion to protect leica M from people who dare to talk not super-nice things about that camera... they give reasons why this and why that .. but the truth is that this is nothing but a big enthusiasm... enthusiasm is the answer.... and for enthusiasm one needs some kind of identity and charismatic one is even better .. in past years, leica was able to "infect" people with that enthusiasm.. various people - those collectors, status symbol funs, real photographers, amateurs etc. today it needs to re-design its lack of a strong enough identity to be competitive at some level - redisign cause the old aura is fading and a bit irrelevant for newer generation. and personally i believe leica has a good case for that "re-design" in todays state of affairs... it is all about taking the key points and being super energetic.
but not doing it means: either they dont see it, or they dont believe it is implementable anyway, or they simply are not interested.

[stunsworth]

We have no idea what form the campaign is going to take.

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by wattsy

Sorry Jaap, but I find it hard to believe this. Are you seriously suggesting that 99% of Leica M users have identified a photographic need that only a Leica M can fulfil? Talk to any Leica dealer and they will have any number of tales about dozy sods who have bought into the system without knowing anything about it.

But they did buy the camera because they believed it to be the "best" and/or believed it would turn them into instant HCB-s (assuming they know who he was). That it does not work that way is another story. Of course it is a perception, not a realistic need... You and I - now we NEED a Leica . I'm sure very few will buy one because they want to look like Posh Spice. That thought is the mistake Hermes made.

[offshore]

[quote=bill;563655]

Originally Posted by offshore

??? Not in this reality...!???

Regards,

Bill

Perhaps you could share with us which reality you're in?

[bill]

[quote=offshore;563856]

Originally Posted by bill

Perhaps you could share with us which reality you're in?

Bored now. Can you point to where I referred to the M8?

Regards,

Bill

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by wattsy

I think you'll find that it is the lack of mass market appeal and recognition that is the attraction for many a Leica dilettante.

A kind of inverted snobism? An interesting thought. To a degree, I might plead guilty here..

[ndjambrose]

Originally Posted by offshore

Everyone is entitled to an opinion in a free world. As a matter of fact there is a saying about opinions as everyone has one. Most of what I've seen expressed as opinions is just what you've stated ZERO noise. When it comes to opinions on this forum that call other peoples work "crappy" because they have had the courage to put their work out there for the Leica campaign then that opinion has no place here or anywhere else.

Well, I've not seen anything posted on the entire forum where someone's work was called 'crappy' - regardlesss of whether it was a contribution to the M campaign or otherwise. Perhaps you might care to point to the post?