Jon Schick Posted November 8, 2014 Share #1 Posted November 8, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought I'd post this here - it's on the Leica forum at DPR but some people have the good sense not to get too involved with all the gearhead discussions over there!.... Didn't expect to see one, but the Leica store in London's Mayfair has a demonstrator D Lux, and John Lewis around the corner on Oxford St had a couple of the Lumix's out to try. It was interesting - I wanted to handle both before deciding whether the differences in handling between the two bodies needed to be considered. I didn't ask to use my own SD card and nor did I spend a lot of time chimping on the rear screen as the battery life was running out, but a few first impressions: Both cameras feel nicely built. There is no obvious difference in build quality between them (nor did I expect there to be). The V Lux (Typ 114) which was also in stock felt disappointingly plasticky by comparison (and also in comparison to the RX10 which I guess is its main rival) which is a shame because it seems to get a lot right - not least the fabulous viewfinder. The D Lux is a little smaller than I expected - certainly noticeably smaller than my GX-7 - and is comparable in size to cameras such as the Fuji X10/20 and Pentax MX-1 that I've used in the past. It is smaller than Canon's G16. If it was any smaller, I think the controls would become really quite difficult unless it was also kitted out with a touchscreen (but I wish it had one even if only to move the focus point around - I love that feature on my Lumix cameras). The EVF is excellent. I'd understood it to be pretty much identical to that fitted to my GX-7 but it seemed slightly better. For example, when I set constant preview to "on" in M mode, I could not replicate irritating tearing effects indoors that I often get with the GX-7; that's great news because this camera cries out to be used manually. I've read that some people have issues with the diopter control but it was fine for me - I easily managed to adjust the viewfinder for use with my (varifocal) specs. The camera takes some time to power on and off, and the zoom is quite leisurely too - I think I'd be tempted to stick with the step zoom most of the time. However, focus appeared to be very quick and accurate even in dim indoor conditions. I don't think this is really a camera for speed-demons - it's for people who want to slow down and think a little, so in reality I don't think some of the issues like slow zooming will impact too heavily on its target market. There are a few handling quirks - I think this is definitely a two-handed camera in the traditional way (actually I think all cameras are....) and given that it is quite small, I ended up finding that the built in grip on the Lumix was actually more of a hindrance than a help. I'm 6'4" and have quite large hands so YMMV, but for me the grip either needed to be bigger, or not there at all. I wonder if the separate Leica one may actually be a better solution ergonomically (or a Franiec grip on the assumption that one is made) but there's no way of telling at this stage. The on/off switch is a little fiddly but I think you'd get used to it. And the strap lug on the right is perfectly positioned to dig into your finger - grrr! With other cameras of similar size (X20, MX-1) I've found that wrist straps can really help and I suspect that would be the way to go with the D Lux too - I have a new Gordy's one waiting here for a camera! The bottom of the camera said it was made in Japan, which frankly I don't understand unless it was to do with being an early demonstrator: the sales assistant was quite clear that it comes from the same production line as the LX100 (see more on that below) and the Lumix is made in China. Something isn't quite right here..... I had a short conversation with the Leica sales assistant about the differences between the two cameras and they volunteered that aside from cosmetics, there is essentially no difference in terms of the hardware (for example no mention was made of lenses being assembled differently or with different coatings). Aside from the 3 year warrantee, LR, excellent Leica after sales service and better resale value, the differences come down both to the cosmetics and also to different firmware - the assistant confirmed that the Leica JPEG engine would be different from Panasonic and also - as one would expect - confirmed that there would be no detectable difference in raw files. They explained that the cameras are made in the same factory on the same production line; in essence they stop making the Lumix bodies every so often to make a dedicated run of Leicas. I suppose that it's possible that a Leica workforce may take a particularly close interest in the assembly of their batch of cameras, or may have different quality control procedures - but I also have to say that I have owned quite a lot of Lumix gear and every piece has been utterly reliable. So where does this leave me? I placed a pre-order for the D Lux when it was announced and I'm going to stick with it - I liked the camera very much and can see that I would have been able to take almost every photo from a recent trip abroad (NYC) without taking my bag of interchangeable lens gear. I prefer the handling without the grip from the Lumix, and have talked myself into thinking that if I ever sell the camera on in a few years time, the resale value will probably mean that the real cost of ownership will have been the same as the Lumix. And apparently the cameras are expected in stock over the "next week or two". This probably explains why the weather has now turned officially rubbish.... Hope these ramblings are interesting! Cheers, Jon 19 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 8, 2014 Posted November 8, 2014 Hi Jon Schick, Take a look here Tried a D Lux (Typ 109) and LX100 today. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted November 8, 2014 Share #2 Posted November 8, 2014 Yes interesting indeed thank you very much. I seem to recall that raw files from Leica and Pany are not the same and cannot be converted by the same converter, but i may be wrong. Any info about that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
West_1 Posted November 8, 2014 Share #3 Posted November 8, 2014 Thanks for that. I'm also very curious as to why it says "made in Japan" when its China. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbmobile Posted November 9, 2014 Share #4 Posted November 9, 2014 Thanks for that. I'm also very curious as to why it says "made in Japan" when its China. Here's a link showing the 109 bottom, nothing written there where it is made. Ferra.ru - Photokina 2014. Все новинки Leica – от компакта до среднего формата 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverblade Posted November 9, 2014 Share #5 Posted November 9, 2014 Hi everyone, this is my 1st post here. Regarding the country of manufacture of D-Lux. I was told by both Leica Singapore and Leica Hong Kong that D-Lux is made in Japan while LX100 is made in China. I have yet to received my D-Lux, so no way I can verify it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverblade Posted November 9, 2014 Share #6 Posted November 9, 2014 Thanks Jon Schick for your 1st hand review of the handling of both D-Lux and LX100. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannylondon Posted November 9, 2014 Share #7 Posted November 9, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have the dkux 109 on preorder from mayfair store 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted November 9, 2014 Share #8 Posted November 9, 2014 Yes interesting indeed thank you very much. I seem to recall that raw files from Leica and Pany are not the same and cannot be converted by the same converter, but i may be wrong. Any info about that? Leica-manifactured Leicas (M, X, T) all shoot DNG. Leica-rebadged Pannies (D-Lux, C) shoot RW2. Cheers, Bruno 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fang Posted November 11, 2014 Share #9 Posted November 11, 2014 Pre-ordered my D-lux from Richard Caplan and they say that it is due to arrive end of next week. I love my Dlux-5 and you can check out the photos which I have posted in this Forum but I have high expectation of the new Type 109. Hope it arrive soon.. will be taking it to Hainan Island in December. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted November 12, 2014 Share #10 Posted November 12, 2014 For those still sitting on the fence, Ming Thein's review is well worth reading: Opinion-review: the Panasonic LX100/ Leica D-Lux 109 – Ming Thein | Photographer I was hoping this could replace my dynamic duo for hiking (the Ricoh GR + RX100). Sadly, while the body is great, the lens is a bit of a dud. I've cancelled my order. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 15, 2014 Share #11 Posted November 15, 2014 I like Ming Thein's reviews and think this one is pretty good. As much I like the idea and controls of this Pano/leica camera I really feel that if you don't need the OOF possibilities of the bigger sensor as a small pocketable camera nothing beats the Sony RX100 m3. It fits in my trousers pocket, has a fantastic lens and IQ, as a small PS camera nothing comes near it. I just find the this latest version of the d-lux series is just getting a bit to big so as I might as well reach for the Leica M or Sony A7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 15, 2014 Share #12 Posted November 15, 2014 Yes but what about the Panny GM5? Smaller body, larger sensor, higher pixel count, interchangeable lenses.... tempting with a Summilux 15 and/or 25... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 15, 2014 Share #13 Posted November 15, 2014 Yes but what about the Panny GM5? Smaller body, larger sensor, higher pixel count, interchangeable lenses.... tempting with a Summilux 15 and/or 25... could be good if that's what your after. Personally I'm looking for the smallest camera I can get with a good lens and IQ otherwise I just use the leica M or Sony A7 both of which are pretty small. For something I can have with me all the time and even in my trouser pockets (think of summer when you don't need a jacket) the Sony is pretty unbeatable. If you want something bigger with more analogue like controls then the Pano/leica is probably a pretty good choice. Would be interested to see a performance/IQ comparison with the fuji X30 which is probably the nearest thing to it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 15, 2014 Share #14 Posted November 15, 2014 Yes pocketable or not that is the question. Are manual focus and image magnification proving handy with your Sony? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
viramati Posted November 15, 2014 Share #15 Posted November 15, 2014 Never used manual focus on it as I don't really see the point since the AF is accurate and with the small sensor size their is large inherent DOF. With a a small pocketable camera such as this I am not really looking for a camera that I want to fiddle with the controls to much so I will move between A.S and P modes and alter the Af point from multi to centre, shoot RAW and that is about it 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C Lei Lux Posted November 15, 2014 Share #16 Posted November 15, 2014 For those still sitting on the fence, Ming Thein's review is well worth reading: Opinion-review: the Panasonic LX100/ Leica D-Lux 109 – Ming Thein | Photographer I was hoping this could replace my dynamic duo for hiking (the Ricoh GR + RX100). Sadly, while the body is great, the lens is a bit of a dud. Hi Ozkar, .. the lens is a bit of dud, that's absolute wrong. NR minus 4 or 5, and the resolution and sharpness perfect. You have be early cancelled. kind regards, mike 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozkar Posted November 16, 2014 Share #17 Posted November 16, 2014 For those still sitting on the fence, Ming Thein's review is well worth reading: Opinion-review: the Panasonic LX100/ Leica D-Lux 109 – Ming Thein | Photographer I was hoping this could replace my dynamic duo for hiking (the Ricoh GR + RX100). Sadly, while the body is great, the lens is a bit of a dud. Hi Ozkar, .. the lens is a bit of dud, that's absolute wrong. NR minus 4 or 5, and the resolution and sharpness perfect. You have be early cancelled. kind regards, mike I've downloaded and processed around 30 or so raw files in Aperture now and my view remains the same, the lens is really lacking. I've used a Panasonic GX7 (same sensor as LX100) with the 12-32 zoom and it is in a different league. The RX100 III downsampled to 12mp also produces images with cleaner/sharper detail across the frame. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Chef Posted November 17, 2014 Share #18 Posted November 17, 2014 Apple Aperture 3.6 just updated its RAW converter allowing LX100 RAW files to be processed. Would be good to know before writing off the camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted November 17, 2014 Share #19 Posted November 17, 2014 (edited) Should not have walked into the store on Saturday. But as it so happens, they had a black and silver LX100 on display I walked out with the silver one after having played with it for 15 minutes. This is a camera I will enjoy shooting with because of its well implemented manual controls, UI, EVF, reasonably good IQ and surprisingly effective IS. Handling and controls are way superior to what I have with my Sony RX100III which will go on sale. For my use, the LX100 will be the casual Sunday stroll or short weekend trip all in one solution and potentially share space in the bag with a more specialized tool such as a Sigma DP Merrill. And by the way, files and lens are fine, just avoid jpegs or read kmhb`s comment above and turn NR off. Edited November 17, 2014 by Ecaton 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Chen Posted November 18, 2014 Share #20 Posted November 18, 2014 And by the way, files and lens are fine, just avoid jpegs or read kmhb`s comment above and turn NR off. This is also the way I dealt with D-Lux 4 & 5 (of course,D-Lux 6, but seldom to be used) to obtain pleasant jpeg images. Editing the LRW files can get better outcomes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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