A IIIF without screws?

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Yesterday I got the below (right side) IIIF ST in the mail. When comparing it with the IIIF (at left side) for the first time I realized that the ST has no screws for the attachment of top plate. When I started looking around at photos in my books and on the internet I saw only IIIF's with screws. Can someone raise a tip of this "mistery"? btw the ST is from 1953 and the other one from 1952.

[earleygallery]

Just one of many Leica production mods over the years. I have two lllf's (neither has ST) one with one without the screws.

[ragc]

No screws on my IIf either.

[@bumac]

No screws on my IIIf with ST.

[luigi bertolotti]

I seem to remember that is related to the 2 basic important variants of IIIf :
- The Black Dial (up to # 611.000) has the screws
- The Red Dial hasn't.

The presence or not of the selftimer isn't fundamental : not all the Red Dials have it, and many Black Dial have it : probably, factory conversion, but even made before the sale of the camera... the transition frm BD to RD happened in a timeframe in which Leitz factory was running at full speed with no problems of "just in time" production...

[crm.ecosse]

Originally Posted by Ron (Netherlands)

Yesterday I got the below (right side) IIIF ST in the mail. When comparing it with the IIIF (at left side) for the first time I realized that the ST has no screws for the attachment of top plate. When I started looking around at photos in my books and on the internet I saw only IIIF's with screws. Can someone raise a tip of this "mistery"? btw the ST is from 1953 and the other one from 1952.

Have a look at the 20 or so IIIF models illustrated (both black and red dial models) on the Westlicht Wein 'Vintage' web-site. All will be revealed in these superb illustrations.

See - Willkommen im LeicaShop - Startseite de

Regards,
CRM

[luigi bertolotti]

Always an interesting site to visit.. and a confirmation of my previous post... , all the depicted IIIf BD have the screws, and not the RD.

[ragc]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Always an interesting site to visit.. and a confirmation of my previous post... , all the depicted IIIf BD have the screws, and not the RD.

...and my IIf is a Red Dial... so it appears it was carried out on the IIs the same way.

[earleygallery]

Both my lllf's are red dials, one has screws the other doesn't. It was probably changed around the time the lllf RD was introduced so maybe only earlier RD's have them.

The later cameras without the screws show better bokeh.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

Both my lllf's are red dials, one has screws the other doesn't. It was probably changed around the time the lllf RD was introduced so maybe only earlier RD's have them.

The later cameras without the screws show better bokeh.

Hum... let me guess... has your item with screws a number between 615.001 and 650.000 ?

[jc_braconi]

I check in the Lager # 1 : cameras and I do not find any comments about, I even look in the Nat Cam Manual #327 The Leica IIIf 78 page and they show pictures from the ones with screws.
My personnal contribute is :
IIIf BD 583xxx screws
" RD 615xxx screws
" RD 659xxx no screw
" RD 679xxx " ST
" RD 729xxx " ST
IIf RD 763xxx "
If RD 789xxx "

[ragc]

IIF SN 799912 here: no screws, good bokeh

[earleygallery]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Hum... let me guess... has your item with screws a number between 615.001 and 650.000 ?

Correct Luigi

[fuchs]

IIIF RD, no ST, SN# 662466, no screws here

[jc_braconi]

I asked to some experts when and at what s/n the screws disapeared,
I am waiting for an answer.

[luigi bertolotti]

I'd bet ONE beer it was from 650.000 on...

[jc_braconi]

The last information is from Dr Bawendi, from Germany who wrote an article in Vidom, the magazine edited by the German Leica Historical Society, about the IIIf.
He says that the screws was removed starting at s/n 615001 first of the batch of 35000 IIIf second version with RD, years 1952/53.

OK next then, I told him that I own one with screws s/n 6155xx, I heard a head scratching and the usual : "exception which confirm the rule".

Luigi keep the beer in a cold place.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by jc_braconi

The last information is from Dr Bawendi, from Germany who wrote an article in Vidom, the magazine edited by the German Leica Historical Society, about the IIIf.
He says that the screws was removed starting at s/n 615001 first of the batch of 35000 IIIf second version with RD, years 1952/53.

OK next then, I told him that I own one with screws s/n 6155xx, I heard a head scratching and the usual : "exception which confirm the rule".

Luigi keep the beer in a cold place.

Hum... 618.xxx... here in Brescia (not mine) and WITH screws... another "exception which confirm the rule"...

[luigi bertolotti]

... and, I forgot, there is also James' item... we put together 3 "exceptions" very quickly... Dr. Bawendi... maybe it's you to prepare a round of beer...

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by fuchs

IIIF RD, no ST, SN# 662466, no screws here

Apart the screw of Summicron 50 mount ! .... mmmh, delicious and rare...