Leica IIIf - rare one?

[Nick De Marco]

I picked this little beauty up from ebay for just over a couple of hundred pounds. Just had my first film I put through it developed, and added this gallery:

http://www.pbase.com/nickdemarco/leica_iiif

I found the camera almost imposible to focus (much worse than other screw mount cameras I have) and most of the negatives were not good enough. A few were though. On the upside, having checked the serial number I think I might have a quite rare model.

[doubice]

Originally Posted by Nick De Marco

......I found the camera almost imposible to focus (much worse than other screw mount cameras I have) and most of the negatives were not good enough. A few were though. On the upside, having checked the serial number I think I might have a quite rare model.

Nick,

Use a Q-Tip and clean the rear rangefinder eyepiece, as well as both round front rangefinder windows. These often get a lot of accumulated muck, making it difficult to focus.

If that does not fix it, you might have a 'blind' semi-transparent mirror in the RF optics. All's not lost - these can be re-silvered or replaced by either Malcolm Taylor in the UK or DAG in the US.

Best,

Jan

[luigi bertolotti]

Not a rare item, but the serial number is really fine !!!

[Canfred]

Hi Nick , perhaps not so rare but the best IIIf it is IMHO better than the S/Timer version since the body is too small for it.
It seems your's would benefit from a CLA and when this is done replace the half mirror. My IIIf was done we sourced the h/mirror from Edmonds USA but your tech would have access. Here is a picture of my camera with a little care your's will look the same. Enjoy your IIIf.

[earleygallery]

Hi,

What does ELC stand for?

Two things re focus, as advised clean the viewfinder/rangefinder windows (use a dab of lens cleaning fluid or one of those monitor cleaning swabs). Also note that the lever under the film rewind is built in dioptre correction - make sure this is set correctly for you.

If the rangefinder image is weak then it is probably the mirror as already mentioned and it will need to be replaced.

The Summitar lens isn't particularly sharp from my experience, particularly if you use it at f2. The lens to use is a 5cm Elmar, or - and especially if your rangefinder isn't too bright - a 25mm Skopar which isn't rangefinder coupled and comes with its own shoe mount viewfinder.

I love my lllf, a good one is just as useable as an M, IMO in fact possibly a better street camera given its size and quirky appearance, it never causes offence.

[earleygallery]

I just followed the link to your lllc page - I see you have a Summar on the lllc and mention that you had better results from a Zorki.

The Summar is known for its very soft glass (physically soft that is) and most are rather scratched, as well as being hazy/foggy through age. I found a very nice clean version at a camera fair last weekend which I have yet to try, but it should produce good results. One stallholder even had a 'mint and boxed' Summar but wanted silly money for it.

The Russian lenses can be very sharp indeed. I have a Zorki with the Jupiter lens which has produced excellent results, although I understand that the quality varied enormously from one lens to the next. They are all copies of German lenses so if you find a good one it can produce similar results to the 'real' thing.

[Nick De Marco]

Many thanks for all the useful replies. As I am about to go away on holiday, I'm going to print them off and store them for when I get back so maybe will clean up the IIIf and try and find a lens hood. After all, at least I know the camera "works".

Nick

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

Hi,

What does ELC stand for?

Two things re focus, as advised clean the viewfinder/rangefinder windows (use a dab of lens cleaning fluid or one of those monitor cleaning swabs). Also note that the lever under the film rewind is built in dioptre correction - make sure this is set correctly for you.

If the rangefinder image is weak then it is probably the mirror as already mentioned and it will need to be replaced.

The Summitar lens isn't particularly sharp from my experience, particularly if you use it at f2. The lens to use is a 5cm Elmar, or - and especially if your rangefinder isn't too bright - a 25mm Skopar which isn't rangefinder coupled and comes with its own shoe mount viewfinder.

I love my lllf, a good one is just as useable as an M, IMO in fact possibly a better street camera given its size and quirky appearance, it never causes offence.

ELC = Ernst Leitz Canada ; the Ontario factory Leitz set up in the '50s... the IIIf marked Canada are rare and sought after by collectors, as well as some of the first Canada-made lenses (50 1,5 Summarit is an example) ; during the years Ontario became an important lens design & manufacturing site, so, always in collector's terms, the reverse exists as well: some lenses are more sought and valued in the "Wetzlar made" variant (Summicron 35 1st type and Elmarit 28 1st type are example)

[yottie]

I have the same model, but without "GmbH", what is that please ?

[earleygallery]

How is the 'ELC' identified on the camera? The one Nick has shows Wetzlar on the top plate.

Gmbh is the German version of Ltd - for a limited liability company.

[jc_braconi]

James,

You can know this with the serial number and listing you can get on :
Leica Screw Mount Serial #'s Sorted by Number
ex :
1953 IIIf ELC 684001 685000 1000
1954 IIIf with delay mechanism 685001 699999 14999
1954 IIIf with delay mechanism ELC 710001 711000 1000
1954 IIf 711001 713000 2000
1954 IIIf with delay mechanism 713001 729000 16000
1954 IIIf with delay mechanism ELC 729001 730000 1000
1955 If 760001 762000 2000
1955 IIf 762001 765000 3000
1955 IIIf with delay mechanism 765001 775000 10000
1955 IIIf ELC 773001 774000 1000

saw that you did not miss the golden summar !

Regards

JC

[AndrewP]

Would one of you be kind enough to assist me? I have recently inherited a Leica from a relative in Canada. The serial number, 773958, suggests from the list above that it is a IIIf ELC, but there is no ELC marking on it. Are the Canadian cameras always marked ELC, or do some have this marking missing? The markings are Leica, DBP, Ernst Leitz, GMBH, Wetzlar, Germany. The lens, a Summicron f=5cm 1:2 Nr 1480870, is also marked Germany.

Regards,
Andrew.

[m_opel]

Originally Posted by yottie

I have the same model, but without "GmbH", what is that please ?

Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung
The english equivalent is the "private company limited by shares", aka Limited or Ltd.

[luigi bertolotti]

Uhm... I think this 610.610 deserves attention and probably a good expertise :

1) Nothing strange that it doesn't bear a "Canadian" engraving... most of Ontario IIIfs bear the std. "Wetzlar" engravings (various kinds of); only 194 (seems) were engraved (4 rows - different sizes of letters)
"Ernst Leitz - Canada Limited - Midland - Ontario" , all into the 1953 batch 684.001 - 685.000.

2) The 610.001 - 611.000 was the first batch assembled in Canada, 1952.

3) BUT the depicted 610.610 has Red Dial and the "new" time scale with 1/25 1/50 1/75 ! : all the texts state that the new shutter began at 615.000 (Wetzar - 1952)

4) One can speculate that the depicted item was "upgraded" later to the new shutter, but is worth noting that the new shutter was mounted on previous s/n belonging to models IIf (from 574.401) : anyway, the year of those IIfs was once again 1952... so some situations of "mixng shutter" can be understandable.

5) In 1952 the "25-20-75" shutter anyway had been for some time in Leitz labs: in 1950, a prototype of IIIf (Betriebsk n. 276 - Italian collection... ) was built with this kind of shutter.

So, Nick... don't worry about focusing... surely repairable... this camera is very very interesting, and I'd suggest you to contact some historician through LHSA to have a sure identification of it.

[luigi bertolotti]

Sorry Nick, I had thought you were from USA... so I wrote about LHSA (Leica Historcal Society of America) : of course they can be anyway of help (James Lager is an important LHSA expert) , and is the biggest... but there is a similar organization in England too (Leica Society - The Leica Society)