M2 black

[Erik van Straten]

What is the opinion of the forum on this camera?

[andybarton]

In what respect?

Whether it's genuine, or not?

They are unusual in black, but not rare. This one looks genuine to me from that photo.

[cocker]

As Andy says there are genuine ones but they seem rare. I have seen a couple that have been repainted - and done very nicely. But this was in reputable dealers who billed them thus rather than suggesting they were original Black paint ones.

[Erik van Straten]

Black M2's are rare, less than 2000 produced. I think this one is restored by Leitz in the 70's. The number is on the original black paint list. The speed knob, the chromed lugs and the chromed screws in the accessory-shoe are more like a black M4. Also, there is a lack of red paint in the two holes of the reverse-knob.

[chilihead]

My opinion - that black M2 is the most horrible thing I have ever seen. Having such a curse near you will surely ruin your life. Send it to me immediately and I promise you will never be burdened by such a foul device again. I feel your pain - when you send it, make sure you use lots of bubble-wrap so the postal workers are not offended too, and if you happen to have the even more foul black rigid Summicron that goes with it, send that too - Thanks.

[stunsworth]

There appears to be some paint rubbed off the top front edge. The metal underneath looks silver. Wouldn't this have been brass if the paint was original? Is it possible that someone has painted over the chrome rather than removing it before painting?

You haven't bought this from an auction site have you?

[echorec]

It is hard to tell from the picture but I have a feeling that this is restored/repainted. The paint does not look like the original type and Steve makes a very valid point about the rub through the paint.

[jc_braconi]

This one is an original one M2 black paint from a batch of 250 s/n 990501 to 990750 beginning 3/21/1960.
average value evaluation : euros 2300 .

[Erik van Straten]

how do you determine this average value evaluation?

[jc_braconi]

Originally Posted by Erik van Straten

how do you determine this average value evaluation?

I survey the market everyday.

[stunsworth]

If someone can repaint the paint, surely then can copy the serial number too.

If the area where the paint has rubbed off hasn't exposed brass I'd be very, very suspcious.

[jc_braconi]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

If someone can repaint the paint, surely then can copy the serial number too.

It is true that even the paranoiacs have their enemies...

[cocker]

Originally Posted by jc_braconi

It is true that even the paranoiacs have their enemies...

So are you saying that if the exposed area is NOT brass its still a genuine black paint rather than a repainted Chrome?

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by jc_braconi

It is true that even the paranoiacs have their enemies...

Indeed they do. But if it's chrome rather than brass underneath the paint then I'd suggest it is indeed a fake.

[jc_braconi]

Steve,
The author asked an opinion, and for sure a real expertise cannot be made on the web, need to be in hand and there is a lot of points to control.

[luigi bertolotti]

As JC says, only a direct expertise can reveal the truth... from the pic... I'd say that the black on top is a little "too fine"... but the s/n is a little "dirty" and the black dots in the rewind... but can be a simple repaint made with no much care. I remember to have seen pics of original black M2s, and the strap lugs were too black, but don't know if it's so for all the black M2... the pics I saw were of later models (with selftimer, > 1.xxx.xxx)

Of course, I second the advice of chilihead... ... Italy is the most far country from New Zealand... so you are sure to throw it REALLY AWAY from you

[echorec]

JC is right of course, very hard to tell on the web but I agree with Luigi about the top colour.

Here is mine, a later model:

[parker51]

Hi everybody,
I'm living in Paris ,so...
...Sorry for my brocken english
I got four brassy original black paint M2 ,
and I will say that if there is no brass ,but chrome , under the black painting ,
it's for sure not an original , but a bad repaint job .
I know that brass under black painting is not enough to be sure it's an original black paint M2 ( some specialists make very fine job in repainting bodies , but they first take away the chrome )
I have no explanation for the serial number , but for me,
the chrome under the painting (that's the most important )
+ the chrome lugs + no red point on the rewind knob....hum...It sure looks like a repaint chrome M2 ....but you can take the same pictures with a repaint, than with an original
black paint M2....So...
Best
Claude

[andybarton]

Originally Posted by parker51

....but you can take the same pictures with a repaint, than with an original
black paint M2....So...

Taking pictures is so not the point of this thread...

[eekimel]

It's an awfully pretty and clean camera. Though it raises a couple questions. Erik, is that your camera, or did you just post the picture? On my monitor, it looks like there's some pixilation around the serial number, which -- if it's yours -- you could clear that up for me as to whether it's just a figment of my monitor. And secondly, is that actually paint removal rub or just a shiny spot that everyone's pointing to as "chrome" underneath the black.

From what I've read (and I've been thinking of having my M2 repainted 'just cause) every repainter takes the metal down to what appears to be brass (ie removes the chrome) so that when paint does rub off, it appears brassy and not chrome. So if it is indeed chrome, it would be a really sloppy repaint job.