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dkpeterborough · 04/21/08, 12:02 AM

Don't forget the R4S MOD2 ... less than 7000 made and available for less than £200 ... Ffordes has one for £169 ... simple reliable aperture priority and manual camera with spot and average metering. Had mine for 20 years and often prefer it to my R8 as is light and so easy to use.

Cheers

dunk

storybrown · 04/21/08, 01:49 AM

Well, the R4s2 is not so much lighter with the drive & grip on it (and it burns through the batteries much faster), but, generally, I agree with you. They and the R3s are prolly the best R buys - along, always, with whatever working SL or SL2 one can pick up - going right now, although I usually bow in the general direction of the R8.

But remember, the day is coming, and may not now be far off, when we're going to have to defend ourselves with cameras alone. And, when that fateful day comes, as it surely is, you're going to want as to have as many SLs and SL2s at your side as you can possibly get, and devil take the hindmost!

I should no doubt add something about the LTMs, but I have not yet successfully loaded one of the damn things, beautiful as they surely are . . .

dkpeterborough · 04/21/08, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storybrown

Well, the R4s2 is not so much lighter with the drive & grip on it (and it burns through the batteries much faster), but, generally, I agree with you. They and the R3s are prolly the best R buys - along, always, with whatever working SL or SL2 one can pick up - going right now, although I usually bow in the general direction of the R8.

But remember, the day is coming, and may not now be far off, when we're going to have to defend ourselves with cameras alone. And, when that fateful day comes[B], as it surely is[/b], you're going to want as to have as many SLs and SL2s at your side as you can possibly get, and devil take the hindmost!

I should no doubt add something about the LTMs, but I have not yet successfully loaded one of the damn things, beautiful as they surely are . . .

Can you please justify this comment?

Thanks

dunk

JohnGregory · 04/21/08, 11:25 AM

It seems that now, the used price of Leica R cameras is low, (ish) making them such good value. Is this a situation which will change? Will the demand for these cameras start to go up? Or are we just a minority bunch of mirror-flippers; metering in the dark?

stunsworth · 04/21/08, 12:18 PM

John, I think the only way it will change will be for the cameras to become even cheaper. Now the lenses may be a different story after the release of the R10.

dkpeterborough · 04/21/08, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnGregory

It seems that now, the used price of Leica R cameras is low, (ish) making them such good value. Is this a situation which will change? Will the demand for these cameras start to go up? Or are we just a minority bunch of mirror-flippers; metering in the dark?

Unlikely that there will ever be queues for the fairly ordinary used SLR film cameras. Even pre digital, new Leica SLR's depreciated in value quickly because the market for used models was not that good and they could sit on dealers' shelves for weeks before selling. However, there are a few scarcer models which may maintain collector and user demand especially if in unmarked condition .. and even common models can be scarce in mint condition ... Nobody has a crystal ball but here are a few which IMO some collectors and users might still hanker after in a few years time ie for which demand might remain stable or even increase:

Leicaflex SL2 MOT; very scarce; only 1020 made? ; still sells for less than £1000
Leicaflex SL2 ... very usable
Leicaflex SL black model ... scarce
Leicaflex SL MOT ( a real sleeper IMO) ... very scarce; 1080 made?; sells for c. £600
Leica R4S MOD2 ... scarce and usable ... also a "sleeper" at present
Leica R6.2 ... professional fully manual SLR
Original Canon F1 (in mint condition) ... built like a tank
Alpa ... not everyone's cup of tea but superb precision engineering .
Nikon F2AS ... with the SL2 was in 1976 one of the two most desirable SLR's

There are of course special editions too for which there could probably be continued regular demand. And the R8 and R9 seem to have a steady demand albeit at much reduced prices ... the R8 sells for a quarter of its original new price

Cheers

dunk

findwolfhard · 04/21/08, 04:08 PM

R3mot!
Can be bought for a snap here in Germany (E...y) use it ruthlessly, when broken, throw away!
Buy another one! Bought one for 120 Euro. The real user camera
The metering is very precise with very even results!
Best regards

JohnGregory · 04/23/08, 08:41 AM

This thread has lasted much longer than I thought it would. Thank you to everyone who helped me decide what to add to the collection. I did get the R6.2 and it is a super 'handfull'. How enyone cannot like these R cameras I don't know, but there we are; personal choice again. One day, I am sure, they will be valued, I just hope I am still on the right side of the flower beds to see it.
When I hjave cracked the system I will post some pictures taken with the R6.2 and my favourite R lens the 35mm f/2 Summicron (First Type - the Canadian built one said to be Dr Mandler's 'masterpiece').

k_g_wolf · 04/23/08, 05:10 PM

>> John

congratulation to your decision. Enjoy the R 6.2, a very reliable little machine. It´s a wonderful product.

It is indeed a great time to trade up in the R- line these days. I used my LEICA Ms for 30 odd years before I decided to join the LEICA R- league with the R7 five years and the R9 two years ago.

My photography changed a lot since then, esp. when I added more and more very fine performing R- lenses to my outfit. Have to stop this now to rescue some funds for coming PHOTOKINA- goodies

Best

john_newell · 04/24/08, 12:26 AM

The R5 and R6/6.2 were (are still) great users. They never got the credit they really deserved. Elitists wrote them off as Minoltas, rebadged. Purists (and I do not mean that reference in any negative sense) pointed out that they were not SL/SL2s. I bought an R5 when it came out, and ditto an R6. I still have and use the R6. I hope you'll have the same success and enjoyment I've had.

nikau · 04/24/08, 05:24 AM

I find the taller shutter dial on the R6.2 rather nice to use. It's a marvelous camera, although my SL2 is even better to use. Unfortunately, its light meter has a mind of its own these days, so it needs to be accompanied by a hand-held.

andybarton · 04/24/08, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by earleygallery

As I understand it the only function is that the ROM contacts can tell the dedicated flash which lens is being used (for zoom functions on the flash). Everything else will work as it should.

You are correct, James.

With an R8/R9, the ROM contacts only help with the flash (provided you are using a compatible flash gun). If you don't use flash, ROMs are not necessary, and even if you do use flash, they are an assistance, not a requirement.

ROM'd lenses do talk to the DMR, and it has been suggested that some in-camera adjustments are done if you use a ROM version over a non-ROM.

I have both ROM'd and non--ROM'd lenses for my DMR and don't worry about them at all.

earleygallery · 04/24/08, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnGregory

When I hjave cracked the system I will post some pictures taken with the R6.2 and my favourite R lens the 35mm f/2 Summicron (First Type - the Canadian built one said to be Dr Mandler's 'masterpiece').

John, is this definately the case? The earlier lens was designed by Dr Mandler? I assumed so but was told that it was the later version with the built in hood. I can't find a definitive answer!

I have the same lens, I bought it after reading a comment somewhere by a pro who used to use the R system, sold it all for Nikon gear but missed the 'Mandler Summicron' so much he bought another body/lens.

JohnGregory · 04/24/08, 01:04 PM

This information about the ROM lenses and the R8/9 is useful. However I had decided that the collection could not have a R8/9 because I would need new lenses. Now suddenly I can update to the latest models. Rats. More expense, and there is a nice empty corner in the collection cabinet.

andybarton · 04/24/08, 01:08 PM

So long as they have 3-cams, they're fine for R8s and R9s.

rob_x2004 · 04/24/08, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikau

...the R6.2...light meter has a mind of its own these days, so it needs to be accompanied by a hand-held.

Have you had a price for light meter circuitry replace?

leicamr · 04/24/08, 10:37 PM

I consider the R4 to R7 bodies to be the best looking SLR's of any make or model. The R8 & R9 are the ultimate for me in functionality. It is even possible to buy R9 mint / boxed for £750. These are just give away prices. Maybe they will encourage and inspire film use again. Much more cost effective compared to a DSLR with a short manfacturing life.

Mark

JohnGregory · 04/25/08, 08:55 AM

I am pretty sure (I don't have my copy with me right now) the quote about Dr Mandler is in Jonathan Eastland's book about the R System. I have found some pretty interesting stuff about the good Dr. on the Internet written by his friends and fellow workers. The Elcan site also has interesting data about the earlier history of the company. He was a pioneer in the use of computers in lens design, and the 35mm f/2 summicron was,I think, one of the first results. Though I suspect that, at that time, the computer was not much more than a higher grade adding machine and that a mind like Dr M's was still needed to produce the finished lens. Anyway, it produces results which are quite distinctive, and I would not want to be without mine.

storybrown · 04/28/08, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkpeterborough

Can you please justify this comment?

Thanks

dunk

Me justify it? I do not make the rules. I am but a messenger.

thrid · 04/30/08, 11:24 AM

I have the 6.2. It is extremely compact and well made. The viewfinder is brilliant and the metering system is basic, but very accurate, if you know how to use it.

But alas the cameras has one potentially fatal flaw. The shutter release is very mushy and has a long throw. DAG tried to adjust mine to be as crisp as it could be, but there still is a lot of travel. So, this may be a deal breaker for some and I'm going to sell mine for this reason.

I also have an SL and basically it feels like a Leica M with a mirror box bolted on. The shutter release is crisp and the viewfinder is as bright and contrasty as they come.

There are a few lenses that can't be mounted on the SL, due to mirror clearance issues, but these are far and few in between. You may be able to use some of these lenses, by milling off a small piece of metal off their rear, but this is something that would need to be investigated.

The meter needs the old mercury 625 batteries, but you can have it recalibrated for modern batteries.

Other than that the SL is one of the best SLR cameras ever made. It certainly is one of the strongest. The SL feels like it was milled from a solid block of metal. Seriously, the bottom plate appears to be stainless steel. Even something as tough as a Nikon F feels a little 'lightweight' in comparison.

The R8/R9 is also a great camera. I have the R8 and while it looks a little odd to some people, the the ergonomics are first rate. My only complaint is that it is a little bulky and quite heavy. Other than that it's a joy to shoot.

And finally I recommend looking at the R3. These are very cheap and IMO underrated. They are quite well made and have a nice, crisp shutter release. The R3 is maligned by many, because of it's shared heritage with Minolta, but people should keep two things in mind. There once was a time when Minolta was competing with Nikon / Canon for the pro market and the construction quality of the average vintage SLR, puts most modern plastic wonders to shame.

04/21/08, 12:02 AM	#21 (permalink)
dkpeterborough Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/27/04 Location: Cambridgeshire Posts: 404	Re: Which Leica R? Don't forget the R4S MOD2 ... less than 7000 made and available for less than £200 ... Ffordes has one for £169 ... simple reliable aperture priority and manual camera with spot and average metering. Had mine for 20 years and often prefer it to my R8 as is light and so easy to use. Cheers dunk __________________ Every day has its dog ... Last edited by dkpeterborough : 04/21/08 at 12:06 AM.

04/21/08, 01:49 AM	#22 (permalink)
storybrown Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 01/09/08 Posts: 131	Re: Which Leica R? Well, the R4s2 is not so much lighter with the drive & grip on it (and it burns through the batteries much faster), but, generally, I agree with you. They and the R3s are prolly the best R buys - along, always, with whatever working SL or SL2 one can pick up - going right now, although I usually bow in the general direction of the R8. But remember, the day is coming, and may not now be far off, when we're going to have to defend ourselves with cameras alone. And, when that fateful day comes, as it surely is, you're going to want as to have as many SLs and SL2s at your side as you can possibly get, and devil take the hindmost! I should no doubt add something about the LTMs, but I have not yet successfully loaded one of the damn things, beautiful as they surely are . . .

04/21/08, 11:25 AM	#24 (permalink)
JohnGregory Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 10/25/07 Location: Ashbourne Posts: 15	Re: Which Leica R? It seems that now, the used price of Leica R cameras is low, (ish) making them such good value. Is this a situation which will change? Will the demand for these cameras start to go up? Or are we just a minority bunch of mirror-flippers; metering in the dark?

04/21/08, 12:18 PM	#25 (permalink)
stunsworth Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/30/02 Location: Manchester Posts: 7,474	Re: Which Leica R? John, I think the only way it will change will be for the cameras to become even cheaper. Now the lenses may be a different story after the release of the R10. __________________ Steve Website - www.steveunsworth.co.uk Picture a week - http://www.steveunsworth.co.uk/PAW_blog/?page_id=9

04/21/08, 04:08 PM	#27 (permalink)
findwolfhard Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 12/15/07 Location: Dinslaken Posts: 697	AW: Which Leica R? R3mot! Can be bought for a snap here in Germany (E...y) use it ruthlessly, when broken, throw away! Buy another one! Bought one for 120 Euro. The real user camera The metering is very precise with very even results! Best regards

04/23/08, 08:41 AM	#28 (permalink)
JohnGregory Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 10/25/07 Location: Ashbourne Posts: 15	Re: Which Leica R? This thread has lasted much longer than I thought it would. Thank you to everyone who helped me decide what to add to the collection. I did get the R6.2 and it is a super 'handfull'. How enyone cannot like these R cameras I don't know, but there we are; personal choice again. One day, I am sure, they will be valued, I just hope I am still on the right side of the flower beds to see it. When I hjave cracked the system I will post some pictures taken with the R6.2 and my favourite R lens the 35mm f/2 Summicron (First Type - the Canadian built one said to be Dr Mandler's 'masterpiece').

04/23/08, 05:10 PM	#29 (permalink)
k_g_wolf Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 09/25/02 Posts: 573	Re: Which Leica R? >> John congratulation to your decision. Enjoy the R 6.2, a very reliable little machine. It´s a wonderful product. It is indeed a great time to trade up in the R- line these days. I used my LEICA Ms for 30 odd years before I decided to join the LEICA R- league with the R7 five years and the R9 two years ago. My photography changed a lot since then, esp. when I added more and more very fine performing R- lenses to my outfit. Have to stop this now to rescue some funds for coming PHOTOKINA- goodies Best

04/24/08, 12:26 AM	#30 (permalink)
john_newell Benutzer Join Date: 06/08/05 Posts: 55	Re: Which Leica R? The R5 and R6/6.2 were (are still) great users. They never got the credit they really deserved. Elitists wrote them off as Minoltas, rebadged. Purists (and I do not mean that reference in any negative sense) pointed out that they were not SL/SL2s. I bought an R5 when it came out, and ditto an R6. I still have and use the R6. I hope you'll have the same success and enjoyment I've had.

04/24/08, 05:24 AM	#31 (permalink)
nikau Benutzer Join Date: 06/29/06 Posts: 77	Re: Which Leica R? I find the taller shutter dial on the R6.2 rather nice to use. It's a marvelous camera, although my SL2 is even better to use. Unfortunately, its light meter has a mind of its own these days, so it needs to be accompanied by a hand-held.

04/24/08, 01:04 PM	#34 (permalink)
JohnGregory Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 10/25/07 Location: Ashbourne Posts: 15	Re: Which Leica R? This information about the ROM lenses and the R8/9 is useful. However I had decided that the collection could not have a R8/9 because I would need new lenses. Now suddenly I can update to the latest models. Rats. More expense, and there is a nice empty corner in the collection cabinet.

04/24/08, 01:08 PM	#35 (permalink)
andybarton Moderator Join Date: 06/21/06 Location: Airstrip 1 - 53:17:00N 03:04:00W Posts: 7,102	Re: Which Leica R? So long as they have 3-cams, they're fine for R8s and R9s. __________________ Cheers, Andy ___________________________ 2008 Spring Collection now released

04/24/08, 10:37 PM	#37 (permalink)
leicamr Benutzer Join Date: 09/25/02 Posts: 53	Re: Which Leica R? I consider the R4 to R7 bodies to be the best looking SLR's of any make or model. The R8 & R9 are the ultimate for me in functionality. It is even possible to buy R9 mint / boxed for £750. These are just give away prices. Maybe they will encourage and inspire film use again. Much more cost effective compared to a DSLR with a short manfacturing life. Mark

04/25/08, 08:55 AM	#38 (permalink)
JohnGregory Neuer Benutzer Join Date: 10/25/07 Location: Ashbourne Posts: 15	Re: Which Leica R? I am pretty sure (I don't have my copy with me right now) the quote about Dr Mandler is in Jonathan Eastland's book about the R System. I have found some pretty interesting stuff about the good Dr. on the Internet written by his friends and fellow workers. The Elcan site also has interesting data about the earlier history of the company. He was a pioneer in the use of computers in lens design, and the 35mm f/2 summicron was,I think, one of the first results. Though I suspect that, at that time, the computer was not much more than a higher grade adding machine and that a mind like Dr M's was still needed to produce the finished lens. Anyway, it produces results which are quite distinctive, and I would not want to be without mine.

04/30/08, 11:24 AM	#40 (permalink)
thrid Erfahrener Benutzer Join Date: 06/09/04 Posts: 372	Re: Which Leica R? I have the 6.2. It is extremely compact and well made. The viewfinder is brilliant and the metering system is basic, but very accurate, if you know how to use it. But alas the cameras has one potentially fatal flaw. The shutter release is very mushy and has a long throw. DAG tried to adjust mine to be as crisp as it could be, but there still is a lot of travel. So, this may be a deal breaker for some and I'm going to sell mine for this reason. I also have an SL and basically it feels like a Leica M with a mirror box bolted on. The shutter release is crisp and the viewfinder is as bright and contrasty as they come. There are a few lenses that can't be mounted on the SL, due to mirror clearance issues, but these are far and few in between. You may be able to use some of these lenses, by milling off a small piece of metal off their rear, but this is something that would need to be investigated. The meter needs the old mercury 625 batteries, but you can have it recalibrated for modern batteries. Other than that the SL is one of the best SLR cameras ever made. It certainly is one of the strongest. The SL feels like it was milled from a solid block of metal. Seriously, the bottom plate appears to be stainless steel. Even something as tough as a Nikon F feels a little 'lightweight' in comparison. The R8/R9 is also a great camera. I have the R8 and while it looks a little odd to some people, the the ergonomics are first rate. My only complaint is that it is a little bulky and quite heavy. Other than that it's a joy to shoot. And finally I recommend looking at the R3. These are very cheap and IMO underrated. They are quite well made and have a nice, crisp shutter release. The R3 is maligned by many, because of it's shared heritage with Minolta, but people should keep two things in mind. There once was a time when Minolta was competing with Nikon / Canon for the pro market and the construction quality of the average vintage SLR, puts most modern plastic wonders to shame.