Impossible M3???

[gvaliquette]

I came across this eBay listing:

LEICA LEITZ M3,CANADA!#984116,ONLY 200,1959,RARE,MINT-! - eBay (item 350042238766 end time Apr-04-08 13:34:40 PDT)

A Canadian M3??? Marked Wetzlar on the top plate???

M3s were never produced in Canada, the M4-2 is the only Canadian M, as far as I know.

...or am I totally wrong!

Sometimes, eBay can drive anyone nuts!

Guy

[luigi bertolotti]

Strange ... 984.116 is really a number belonging to a batch of Ontario M3s (984.001 - 200) , made in 1959... not even one of the first batches (first Canadian M3 are of 1955). Lager displays a 916.xxx, with the standard engraving "Midland - Ontario".

So the Wetzlar engraving is really an oddity... but looking at Ebay pics, seems to me the engraving "M3 - 984.116" is not so fine... a direct control would be mandatory (comes from Italy, but I'm far from the location ). Top plates of Ms are easily available as "spares"... the Canadian M3, though produced in numbers (7000 ca.) is undoubtly valued more than Wetzlars... could be an easy game to play...

Anyway, the whole tone of the annoucement sounds not so good... "only 200 produced"... that's false, even for the year 1959 only (1150 Canadian M3s in that year), it's simply belonging to a production batch of 200 items... nothing strange; and the top evidence to the fact that Leitz, before M3, had produced cameras only in screw mount ! Any decent Leiciste knows well that M3 was the first BM Leica... seems an announcement for semi idiots...

I never buy on ebay, and do not know the bidding rules., surely the "buy it now" is at all exaggerate a price.

[TONTONTINTIN.123]

M4-P is Canadian too.

[Ivar B]

Several M3s were made in Canada, and there is nothing special about this. One can see that this is a Canadian M3 from the large M3 engraving prior to the serial number. This M3 is rarer than the Wetzlar M3 and prices are a somewhat higher. I have one of these in my own collection.

However, where the seller goes wrong is to describe this camera as extremely rare. 7080 M3s were made in Canada, and 215 944 in Wetzlar. The extremely rare Canadian M3 is with Canada engraving on the top plate, and the "common" Canadian M3 comes with the Wetzlar engraving, which is what we see for sale here. The quoted number of 200 bodies may be correct for the Canada engraving one. That one is listed as R8 (Exhibition Item) while the Canada production M3 is R6 (Very Rare).

[gvaliquette]

Hello Luigi, Martin, Ivar:

I simply did not know that M3s were produced in Canada. I assumed that the M4-2 was the first and only Canadian M! Thank you for enlightening me.

Guy

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by Ivar B

Several M3s were made in Canada, and there is nothing special about this. One can see that this is a Canadian M3 from the large M3 engraving prior to the serial number. This M3 is rarer than the Wetzlar M3 and prices are a somewhat higher. I have one of these in my own collection.

However, where the seller goes wrong is to describe this camera as extremely rare. 7080 M3s were made in Canada, and 215 944 in Wetzlar. The extremely rare Canadian M3 is with Canada engraving on the top plate, and the "common" Canadian M3 comes with the Wetzlar engraving, which is what we see for sale here. The quoted number of 200 bodies may be correct for the Canada engraving one. That one is listed as R8 (Exhibition Item) while the Canada production M3 is R6 (Very Rare).

Really so, Ivar ? I didn't know ... but, thinking well, I've never seen a M3 with Canada engraving, apart the item depicted by Lager (who says only that weren't sold in US); I knew of the 190-only Canadian IIIf with Canada engraving, the rest being Wetzlar - engraved.
This makes even misleading the announcement, even if probably, for what You have said, there is no forgery on the top as I speculated... btw... in the ebay pics isn't clear if the top "5th" screw on the BM still has its Leitz "stamp"...

[jc_braconi]

Originally Posted by gvaliquette

I assumed that the M4-2 was the first and only Canadian M! Thank you for enlightening me.
Guy

Here it is write on this M4

[Ivar B]

Yes, I also own a Canadian M4 Black, which is rarer than the one made in Germany.

I contacted the seller and informed him of the M3 he was selling, but he claims the camera is very rare because only a few M3s were made that particular year. This is the first time I hear someone measuring a cameras rarity by how many were made at a particular point of time, and not by total production.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by Ivar B

Yes, I also own a Canadian M4 Black, which is rarer than the one made in Germany.

I contacted the seller and informed him of the M3 he was selling, but he claims the camera is very rare because only a few M3s were made that particular year. This is the first time I hear someone measuring a cameras rarity by how many were made at a particular point of time, and not by total production.

Ridicolus motivation... and in 1959 lot of M3s were made... my compatriot is "fishing"

[lars_bergquist]

As to Canadian Wetzlar-marked cameras, this is the story I have heard somewhere:

Sometime the BRD government (or the Hessian government) considered an administrative boundary reform which would have merged a cluster of communities in the Lahn Valley, including Wetzlar, into a larger entity called 'Lahnstadt'. Leitz, being aware that the marking 'Ernst Leitz Wetzlar' carried a goodwill that 'Ernst Leitz Lahnstadt' would not carry, did actually officially change their name from 'Ernst Leitz' to 'Ernst Leitz Wetzlar'! So even the Midland operation became a part of 'Ernst Leitz Wetzlar' and its products were duly marked thus. Local protests did scotch the town-fusion project however.

The old man from th Age of Ernst Leitz II

[jc_braconi]

You are absolutely right Lars.

[TONTONTINTIN.123]

I have a question for you, JC. Wich version of the Summicron 35 is mounted on your M4 ?

[jc_braconi]

Martin,
it is a version III,(over 2,461,001) no infinity lock, Leitz Canada, 1972 made.

[TONTONTINTIN.123]

Thanks, JC.