LTM Visoflex III??

[farnz]

This appears to be a (very rare?) Visoflex III for thread mount cameras - has anyone seen one of these before?

MICRO MICRO-VISOFLEX SPECIAL VERSION LEITZ VISOFLEX M on eBay, also Leica, Alte Kameras, Photographica, Foto Camcorder (end time 12-Dec-07 20:30:00 GMT)

Pete.

[luigi bertolotti]

I never seen it, in any of the well known books on accessories; the statement of the seller is correct : is neither a Micro- nor an Endo Visoflex, even if the sliding focusing glass is apparently the same as the Micro. The pics are of very good quality : I picked the 3 that for me reveal the most interesting details :

1) The standard LTM mount ; notice the 5 (suppose) screws and the scrapped metal around them : clearly a not too fine work... Leitz factory ? Uneven... The red plastic "button" glued (I think) to the Viso body hasn't an evident function (aligning to...?), but it looks identical to the well known Leitz component used in the first BM lenses (Summicrons and so).
VisoIII_LTM_1.jpg

2) The front flange : the seller doesn't detail which is its diameter/thread measure (I seem it's threaded inside, even if in the pic is not so clear) : is the most "non standard" detail : clearly, was used to fit the Viso to some optical assembly; I think it's at all custom made : the conditions are excellent (notice again the 5 screws, strangerly unevenly spaced). He who made the modification didn't take care of removing the original small button+lever assembly for fitting to the Viso devices with the standard Leitz bayonet mount: it's well visible at the left side of the pic.
VisoIII_LTM_2.jpg

3) The button to activate mirror movement is apparently unmodified; on the contrary, the lever to connect it to the body shutter releas button has been completely removed, with a black screw to cover the hole: it was obviously unuseful, for it is dimensioned for BM bodies; so, differently from the Viso modified for the Leica CL body (thanks again JC... ) they have decided not to make a custom lever to "reach" the LTM body shutter button.

VisoIII_LTM_3.jpg

My conclusion is that it is a very interesting item, I think custom modified but probably not at Leitz factory : it's a well done mech work that, for instance, a good repair lab can execute easily and with small risk : you haven't strict tolerancing problems that can, say, put at risk correct focusing... the Viso is a reflex device and, whichever the optical gear you mount in front, it shall surely have some focusing adjusting (bellows-like or screw-like). The "user environment" ? I'd bet tech/science... medical, probably, or even astronomy... The price is high but not exaggerate: for a collector of "Leitz strangeries" can be a good buy.

[luigi bertolotti]

Other observations about...

1) My previous note about the red button (pic 1) was nonsense... it was standard on VisoIIIs.. aligned with the lever to fit the Viso to BM bodies.

2) The standard BM flange in front of the VisoIII had 5 screws, apparently positioned exactly as the ones of the non std. flange (pic 2) : maybe they have succeded in using the originals threaded holes...

3) The black screw that covers the hole where the shutter lever was originally fitted (pic 3) has an "original look"... maybe the same that fitted the removed lever...

Another interesting pic is this :

VisoIII_LTM_4.jpg

The "black box" that allows to have the prism in elevated position (respect to the standard) looks clearly like an original accessory... the typical black finishing of the VisoIII body is surely not so easy to be reproduced by an indipendent lab; maybe it was an original listed accessory, but sorry I haven't here a complete catalog of VisoIII system... maybe someone else can help ... (I hope a pair of French friends shall feel engaged... )

[bill]

Luigi, I love to read your posts, even on topics that don't directly interest me. You are a mine of fascinating information, well presented!

Regards,

Bill

[jaapv]

I have a strong suspicion this was modified to serve in an astronomical telescope. It would be interesting to know if the front ring unscrews to reveal the original LTM thread. The modfying and special orders Leitz did in the fifties were not all that polished. My father had a slideprojector modified by Leitz to project onto an enlarger board for reading and printing microfilm . It involved tubes, a mirror, a negative mask etc. It is long ago, but what I remember of the engineering was about the same level as this thing. So it might well have been done by Leitz. The black box modification certainly suggests that it is a one-off construction by Leitz. I'm fairly confident that this was not a standard accessory, not even small series.

[luigi bertolotti]

... that black box is intriguing me... too clear it's from Leitz factory... a strange idea has came to my mind... I read (Laney) that Leitz made small numbers of VisoIII "adapted for Leica M5"... M5 was taller than previous Ms... the std. prism surely did not fit... can be it's in relation with this "box" ?

Jaap, look at all the pics in ebay... seems to me that if the custom flange would be screwed ONTO the original (BM) mount, one could see more distance from the Viso body... I think they removed it. An idea for you...why don't you BUY AND INSPECT it ? Sorry, but I never buy on ebay...

[jaapv]

I doubt that, Luigi, that box is far too high, the difference of the M5 was just a few mm's. Maybe I will . Not for much money though...
Did you notice the magnifying glass that comes with it. That again suggests that it is in combination with some fixed optical instrument. As the Micro-Visoflex for use with a microscope was different, this does, to me, still look like an adaptation for astrophotography.

[luigi bertolotti]

Right, the box is really high... but I would be curious to see that unusual "VisoIII for M5..." (even if M5 is a camera I personally do not like... just for esthetics). And me too tought of astronomy... strange the use of the prism, anyway... I imagine it would be more logical, for clarity and ergonomics, to use the vertical viewer... I prefer it when working with Viso+tripod (and 135 head, of course... )

P.S.... another strange idea reagrding the box... accessory for BM Leicas WITH Leicameter mounted on ?...

[jaapv]

Hmmmm. a nice idea, but it WOULD block the window of the lightmeter, making it useless.
Now that we are on the subject, I'm not 100% sure, but I do think the Visoflex III clears the M5.
On rereading, I meant that the smaller ring we see in the front mount might be some sort of adapter ring, which screws into an LTM ring that replaces the V (aka M) mount.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by jaapv

Hmmmm. a nice idea, but it WOULD block the window of the lightmeter, making it useless.
Now that we are on the subject, I'm not 100% sure, but I do think the Visoflex III clears the M5.
On rereading, I meant that the smaller ring we see in the front mount might be some sort of adapter ring, which screws into an LTM ring that replaces the V (aka M) mount.

Gosh... touchè...

Possible... not so evident in the pic if it's a single piece or not... but what is almost sure is that, contrary to my first look, the inner ring IS NOT THREADED inside... whatever be that "rings" I'd say there is no evidence of a screw-helicoid shape.

VisoIII_LTM_enl.jpg

pics aren't bad, but the red cast is terrible...

[farnz]

Thanks for your replies, Luigi and Jaap, I didn't think I'd seen one like this before!

In regard to the remarks about it being intended for an M5, it has a LTM on its 'body side'. Why would some one go the extent of replacing the original Viso III M mount with a LTM that would require an adapter to use it with an M5?

It seems to me that this is intended for use with a LTM camera not an M - would you agree?

Pete.

[giordano]

Do you think the modified prism is tall enough to allow a If or Ig body to be screwed on or off without removing the prism?

Astronomical telescope seems unlikely: a 90 degree finder seems more common in that use.

[str]

The Visoflex seems to be a Visoflex III, modified, but not by the
Leitz factory. There is a 39mm thread on one end, the end for the
camera, and another thread at the other end, the end for the lens.
Both threads are instead the original bayonet. I wonder, which
camera needs the space between the top of the camera and the
prism, and I wonder, which lens screws in this thread. Neither
lens or camera seam to be Leitz lenses or cameras.

str.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by farnz

Thanks for your replies, Luigi and Jaap, I didn't think I'd seen one like this before!

In regard to the remarks about it being intended for an M5, it has a LTM on its 'body side'. Why would some one go the extent of replacing the original Viso III M mount with a LTM that would require an adapter to use it with an M5?

It seems to me that this is intended for use with a LTM camera not an M - would you agree?

Pete.

Pete, I mentioned the M5 not for I thought of a use of THIS device with it... simply, I was intrigued by the "black box" on which the prism is mounted, in elevated position: it's an unusual component, but for its finishing seems to me it's a Leitz factory device (differently from the flanges), so I started to think of WHY Leitz would have produced such an accessory... and one of the vague possibility could be that to mount a VisoIII with prism onto a M5, you need to "elevate" the standard prism positioning (owing to the taller M5 body)... this "box" can work for such a goal... but it's exaggerately tall for this purpose only.

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by giordano

Do you think the modified prism is tall enough to allow a If or Ig body to be screwed on or off without removing the prism?

The pics don't permit a precise "measure" , but I doubt... do not forget that the lens flange of LTM is significantly off-centered in the body... the "longer half", when 90° rotated, goes VERY high..

[gyoung]

Originally Posted by luigi bertolotti

Pete, I mentioned the M5 not for I thought of a use of THIS device with it... simply, I was intrigued by the "black box" on which the prism is mounted, in elevated position: it's an unusual component, but for its finishing seems to me it's a Leitz factory device (differently from the flanges), so I started to think of WHY Leitz would have produced such an accessory... and one of the vague possibility could be that to mount a VisoIII with prism onto a M5, you need to "elevate" the standard prism positioning (owing to the taller M5 body)... this "box" can work for such a goal... but it's exaggerately tall for this purpose only.

The whole point of the Viso 3 prism was that it cleared the M5, whereas the Viso 2 prism would not. When I had a Viso 3 the prism looked silly on my M3, with a gap under it, the Viso 2 prism looks good on the M2-3-4.

I presume the Viso 3 prism is needed for the M6 as well as the M5? since the M6 body is slightly taller than the earlier cameras.

Gerry

[Philippe D.]

Hi Gerry,

Originally Posted by gyoung

I presume the Viso 3 prism is needed for the M6 as well as the M5? since the M6 body is slightly taller than the earlier cameras.

Not the M6, but the M6 TTL, as well as the M7 and M8 are taller.

[jc_braconi]

Hello
This Visoflex III is a part of a complex coupling with a polaroid rotating magazine for 4 pictures a compur shutter in between the magazine and the Viso III plus an handle at 45°
keeping the double cable release and a 90 lens on a OUAGO.
Cheers
JC