AlessioG Posted February 1, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all I have this beautiful Schneider lens, but I can't find anything on web! No information, no pics, no optic scheme, no history.. nothing. It is in Leica screw mount, with leather case (on the bottom it say "E. Leitz Wetzlar Germany). It has 10 blades. I would have some information about it, anything. I love to know about lens history but this seems not to exist. The only thing I found, it's the history of Leitz Xenon, but I don't know if it's the same lens with different body. Thanks you all Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240574-schneider-kreuznach-xenon-11550-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=2757283'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 1, 2015 Posted February 1, 2015 Hi AlessioG, Take a look here Schneider-kreuznach Xenon 1:1,5/50. Any info?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
TomB_tx Posted February 1, 2015 Share #2 Posted February 1, 2015 Erwin Puts also note some confusion about the Leitz Xenon, as there are no Leitz factory records of production. Thus he thinks it is likely that Schneider actually made the Leitz version. Leitz might well have required a different body appearance. The Leitz Smmarit 1.5 does appear to be made by Leitz, and was a coated Xenon design. I have an LTM Summarit, and it is much better than I expected. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 2, 2015 Share #3 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) This is a really interesting item, probably with a good degree of rarity, because Schneider, which made many lenses as an indipendent manufacturer, never officially listed (as far as I know) a Xenon 50mm lens with 1,5 aperture for 35mm format : they designed, manufactured and sold it as Leitz Xenon, of course in partnership with Leitz who effectively listed the lens. There was a well known Xenon 50mm 1,9 which was made for various mounts - Kodak Retina version is very common, and others too; BUT the serial number of your Xenon is revealing : it dates the lens to 1948/49... Leitz Xenon wasn't anymore listed, Leitz Summarit (same design with coating) was just to be introduced... this makes to think that your item can be, by logic : - An experimental coated lens (it looks coated in your picture, if I'm not wrong) provided to Leitz for testing OR - A lens from a small batch that was made to fulfill the demand for 1,5 lenses for Leica, that Leitz hadn't available in their pricelist. Both hipotesis can be real : Schneider made experimental lenses which had normal serial numbers; an example on Xenons is the Xenon 50 1,4 for Rolleiflex 35, which wasn't commercially produced; other example, the 180 2,8 for Visoflex which later was produced as Tele Elmarit with Leitz numbering - I have seen examples of those Schneider lenses and their numbers wer "normal", differently from Leitz who for prototypes used "out of range" numbers like 00000xx or 50.xxx.xxx. By the other side, years 1948 and around where "complex" for the German Industry, which was in "reconstruction" phase, with lack of some raw materials, whose availability was controlled by Allied Military forces... no strange that some "spurios" products were produced and sold out of normal-official intercompany agreements , using the product capacity and the materials they had available in a certain moment. By the way, your lens has the f stops to f16, which is like they made with the Leitz Summarit, while the Leitz Xenon closed just to f 9 (with the old "european" scale 4,5 6.3 etc...) , so it really makes to think of a "bridge" design betwee Xenon and Summitar... can you post some other picture ? I'd like to see the f stop ring and the screw mount with rangefinder coupling cam... Edited February 2, 2015 by luigi bertolotti 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Thanks you very much for these interesting informations! I was sure that I could find competent people here ! Here are the pictures that you requested. Unfortunately I don't have a rangefinder camera to attach the lens (I have a Pentax DSLR right now). I've bought it one week ago in an old store in Rome because it was sooo interesting lens Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited February 2, 2015 by AlessioG Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240574-schneider-kreuznach-xenon-11550-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=2758054'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 2, 2015 Share #5 Posted February 2, 2015 (edited) Thanks for the additional pictures, Alessio ! Hum... I would be curios to mount that lens on a Leica SM body and see how is the rangefinder alignement... there are a pair of details that I found intriguing (comparing it to my Leitz Xenon and Summarit) : 1) Position of the focus index : i mean, in your last picture : how is focused the lens ? is it at minimum distace - fully extended, so with the focus index well below 1 meter ? 2) Depth of focus scale... what is the diameter of the barrel on which the DOF scale is engraved ? Apparently the DOF scale is different from the Summitar's one... but can be a consequence of a diffferent diameter (on the Summitar, it's 48mm, and 46mm the diameter of the barrel with the focusing distances) The DOF scale issue arises my curiosity because Leitz did use a certain standard to draw the DOF scale, while Schneider probably used another... is a detail one can notice also in the Super Angulon 21, which too was a Schneider design and built, comparing it with the "native" Leiz 21mm. And finally : what about coating ? Is it present ? I thought so but looking at your last pictures (1st and 2nd) I'm not sure.. By the way... I found a reference to a Xenon 50mm 1,5 in an old Schneider Catalog (1939), but as a Cine Lens (no picture, regrettably... but I saw some other pictures of other Schneider cine lenses, which didn't have the "Cine" specification in the engravings) Edited February 2, 2015 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted February 2, 2015 1) The focus ring was at minimum focus distance, it go after 1m write on scale and the barrel was fully retracted. At infinity (fully extended) the dot is on infinity simbol precisely. 2) At the moment I can't measure the barrel because I haven't the lens with me Ps. Mi stò sforzando di scrivere in inglese ma sono proprio scarso ahaha Grazie mille Luigi Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 2, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted February 2, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) And finally : what about coating ? Is it present ? I thought so but looking at your last pictures (1st and 2nd) I'm not sure.. The Duroplan triangle is present, but I'm not sure. Maybe tomorrow I'll check. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 2, 2015 Share #8 Posted February 2, 2015 The catalog page I quoted Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240574-schneider-kreuznach-xenon-11550-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=2758141'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 2, 2015 Share #9 Posted February 2, 2015 ... Ps. Mi stò sforzando di scrivere in inglese ma sono proprio scarso ahaha Grazie mille Luigi A proposito... la montatura sembra proprio il 39x1 Leica... ma c'è l'accoppiamento al telemetro ? dalla foto (la terza) non si capisce bene se l'anello nero interno è profilato per l'accoppiamento... però manovrando il fuoco dovresti accorgertene facilmente... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 3, 2015 Share #10 Posted February 3, 2015 (edited) Oh, well... at least ONE MORE does exist... found on the Net, but can't provide the link to the original site (Japanese, apparently) that appears unaccessible (is around the name "fengniao"... but don't succeed in entering... the picture appeared by chance in a goggle search about "50mm 1,5" Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Not EXACTLY like yours, with a different flange (and mount ? the back cap seems not to be a 39x1 screw mount... ) and a slightly different focus index, also, it lacks the triangle engraved within the front writing, which identifies the Duroplan coating... but clearly is the same lens, basically <edit later> just found some other references : http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00Gt11?start=10 http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=62&L=11 (one at auction 25 of 2014, 2 at two auctions of 2008) many pictures of the Westlicht items, which allow to understand something about this lens and its construction and age. Edited February 3, 2015 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Not EXACTLY like yours, with a different flange (and mount ? the back cap seems not to be a 39x1 screw mount... ) and a slightly different focus index, also, it lacks the triangle engraved within the front writing, which identifies the Duroplan coating... but clearly is the same lens, basically <edit later> just found some other references : http://photo.net/leica-rangefinders-forum/00Gt11?start=10 http://www.westlicht-auction.com/index.php?id=62&L=11 (one at auction 25 of 2014, 2 at two auctions of 2008) many pictures of the Westlicht items, which allow to understand something about this lens and its construction and age. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240574-schneider-kreuznach-xenon-11550-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=2758354'>More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted February 3, 2015 I am glad to have found more photos and information. I've found an auction in ebay (I don't know if I can post the link. I attach the photo and description): "Schneider f. Leica 1.5/5 cm Xenon War Time coupling for rangefinder! SerNo. 1917610 Condition: AB, functional good condition, very light signs of wear very rare Xenon original made for Leica, with coupling for rangefinder!" I've found also other image coupled with rangefinder Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240574-schneider-kreuznach-xenon-11550-any-info/?do=findComment&comment=2758381'>More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted February 3, 2015 Share #12 Posted February 3, 2015 Oh, well... at least ONE MORE does exist... found on the Net, but can't provide the link to the original site (Japanese, apparently) that appears unaccessible (is around the name "fengniao"... but don't succeed in entering... the picture appeared by chance in a goggle search about "50mm 1,5" Luigi, fengniao is a very popular Chinese website for users selling and buying second hand gear. The advert you found the photo of has likely been expired already, hence the dead link. I am glad to have found more photos and information. I've found an auction in ebay (I don't know if I can post the link. I attach the photo and description): "Schneider f. Leica 1.5/5 cm Xenon War Time coupling for rangefinder! SerNo. 1917610 Condition: AB, functional good condition, very light signs of wear very rare Xenon original made for Leica, with coupling for rangefinder!" I've found also other image coupled with rangefinder Alessio, the last photo you found on the net has evidently been made by Tom Eitnier. He might be a user here at LUF. You might get lucky, posting this thread over at the rangefinderforum - Tom might be around too and has probably some additional info on the lens if the one on the Barnack body has been his lens. It is a great find indeed! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 3, 2015 Share #13 Posted February 3, 2015 (ehi, Alessio... dimmi se è o no un GRANDE Forum, il nostro....) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted February 4, 2015 (ehi, Alessio... dimmi se è o no un GRANDE Forum, il nostro....) Thanks you all! I found that in this book there are all information about the lens. But I haven't it. Who has it? Hartmut Thiele "Großes Fabrikationsbuch Schneider-Kreuznach Band 1" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted February 4, 2015 Some photo from this lens https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/44264/sets/72157633334709141/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 4, 2015 Share #16 Posted February 4, 2015 Hey seems that those are pictures from a man named Jeffo Wong... I wonder if he's indeed the Forum Member "Jeffo Jeffo" who has often posted in the thread "Playing old lenses..." , with pictures taken with very odd old lenses (Taylor Hobson, Dallmeyer etc...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted February 4, 2015 I saw his album and he's the same person. I hope he will read this post Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted February 4, 2015 I found this http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/81698-schneider-5cm-f-1-5-war.html PS. if I'm boring tell me and that I stop posting clues hihih Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlessioG Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted February 4, 2015 Another thread! I'm just like Sherlock Holmes tonight ahahah http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/42177-schneider-xenon-50mm-f1-5-a.html Very intresting Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted February 5, 2015 Share #20 Posted February 5, 2015 Another thread! I'm just like Sherlock Holmes tonight ahahahhttp://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/42177-schneider-xenon-50mm-f1-5-a.html Very intresting ... And my memory doesn't serves me sufficiently to remember threads I wrote into just 6 years ago... (my number of posts in the forum can someway explain this...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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