Augustdresser Posted January 27, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello.....I have recently added Hektor No. 558565 to my little collection of photographic lenses. I have several Hektors of 1939 to 1942 vintage and use them with a digital body from time to time. My question: I believe that all 1940 Hektors were sold to the German government for various military purposes. I am wondering if any specific information would be available regarding this particular lens. Is there a source of information regarding this that anyone might be aware of? Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Hi Augustdresser, Take a look here 1940 Leitz Hektor. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
M9reno Posted January 27, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 27, 2015 Hello.....I have recently added Hektor No. 558565 to my little collection of photographic lenses. I have several Hektors of 1939 to 1942 vintage and use them with a digital body from time to time. My question: I believe that all 1940 Hektors were sold to the German government for various military purposes. I am wondering if any specific information would be available regarding this particular lens. Is there a source of information regarding this that anyone might be aware of? Thank you. Sorry - I know it's possible to look up the serial number and find the answer to this question, but what kind of Hektor is yours: 135mm, 73mm, 50mm? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 27, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) Welcome to the Forum !! 558.565 is the number of a Hektor 13,5 cm; many Hektors of that era do have Military/Government engravings ("Heer", "Luftwaffen Eigentum" etc..) and there is a specific literature on the "War Leitz items"... I am not a collector of these specialty items so a specific title/author does not come to my mind, but other people here can be of help. In our Wiki area it is reported that some lenses from that batch are indeed Military engraved : 558001 559000 Hektor 13.5 cm 1:4,5 (S-black+Luftwaffen) 1940 1000 Edited January 27, 2015 by luigi bertolotti 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustdresser Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted January 27, 2015 Sorry - I know it's possible to look up the serial number and find the answer to this question, but what kind of Hektor is yours: 135mm, 73mm, 50mm? Sorry.....I should have mentioned that it was a 135mm Hektor. All of the Hektors that I have are that same focal length. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustdresser Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted January 27, 2015 Welcome to the Forum !!558.565 is the number of a Hektor 13,5 cm; many Hektors of that era do have Military/Government engravings ("Heer", "Luftwaffen Eigentum" etc..) and there is a specific literature on the "War Leitz items"... I am not a collector of these specialty items so a specific title/author does not come to my mind, but other people here can be of help. In our Wiki area it is reported that some lenses from that batch are indeed Military engraved : 558001 559000 Hektor 13.5 cm 1:4,5 (S-black+Luftwaffen) 1940 1000 Lens range scale is set out in meters. Failed to mention that. I assume that export lenses to USA would have had range scales in feet. I have noticed other Hektors that are in the same serial number range that you mention that have naval and army (Heer) engraving. Somewhere along the way, I got it in my head that the whole production of lenses of this particular sort during the year 1940 went to the German government....???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted January 27, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 27, 2015 On the whole only very, very few of WWII 13,5 Hefar production went to the Wehrmacht, see the Cane List (and we include in this the whole wartime production and not only the lot that interests you). Most of them went to the Luftwaffe, only 25 super-rare went to W.H. and others 30 super-rare were in grey finish, only one of them went to KM: of all these only a handfull are known still in existance. Then there are very, very few delivered to KM (Kiel+Wilhelmshaven). Moreover, one Hefar belonging to Gestapo Danzig is pictured on J.Lager book. Beware: actually many of 13,5cm hefar were delivered even to "friendly countries" even during the war as Germany needed strong currency! The only option to know the true is to check the registers. cheers. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 27, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 27, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Lens range scale is set out in meters. Failed to mention that. I assume that export lenses to USA would have had range scales in feet. I have noticed other Hektors that are in the same serial number range that you mention that have naval and army (Heer) engraving. Somewhere along the way, I got it in my head that the whole production of lenses of this particular sort during the year 1940 went to the German government....???? Well... surely in 1940 the export to USA was already very critical (or even impossible / forbidden, though the two Nations were still officially not in war status one to the other) and of course for UK the same, so it's very probable that all the items of that batch are in meters; about the final destination... in 1940 Germany was in full war economy : probably, the civilian market was reduced to a nut (some professionals, maybe...) and many Government entities did need photo equipment... the items officially ordered by Army forces were probably all properly engraved, but many other Government related items were provided with no special markings. As a side not related to my Country, Italy was a "friend nation" (and military ally from1941) and the Italian importer (Cattaneo - Genova) did continue to receive Leitz gear in those years... I remember to have seen reproductions of factory delivery records which list Leica bodies and lenses delivered to Italy in '40 and '41 : personally, I own a Telyt 40 cm with a number of 1941 (567.044), which by logic arrived in italy through the importer... even if from some details I tend to think that, despite its number, it was probably assembled and delivered after War. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 27, 2015 Share #8 Posted January 27, 2015 I have Hektor 73mm serial number 538209 and was lucky enough to find its entry in the register photographed on the following website (see the ninth image from the top). My Leica Historica: Fantastico "Outfit" Leica della Marina Militare It was sent on 14 November 1940 to Cattaneo at Genoa under contract number 14xxx, probably for use by Italian military. It survived the war (and the years since) in remarkably good shape, close to mint. Unlike its slightly younger sister, serial number 538211 (only two numbers apart), which went to the German navy at Kiel, mine has no military markings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 27, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 27, 2015 Thanks !! Very interesting link, Al !! Maybe those were the pages that I vaguley remembered to have seen, reporting regular deliveries to Cattaneo in war years... you have been lucky to find a lens of yours quoted here !!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustdresser Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted January 27, 2015 I have Hektor 73mm serial number 538209 and was lucky enough to find its entry in the register photographed on the following website (see the ninth image from the top). My Leica Historica: Fantastico "Outfit" Leica della Marina Militare It was sent on 14 November 1940 to Cattaneo at Genoa under contract number 14xxx, probably for use by Italian military. It survived the war (and the years since) in remarkably good shape, close to mint. Unlike its slightly younger sister, serial number 538211 (only two numbers apart), which went to the German navy at Kiel, mine has no military markings. Very interesting photos.........Lovely equipment, indeed!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustdresser Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted January 27, 2015 Well... surely in 1940 the export to USA was already very critical (or even impossible / forbidden, though the two Nations were still officially not in war status one to the other) and of course for UK the same, so it's very probable that all the items of that batch are in meters; about the final destination... in 1940 Germany was in full war economy : probably, the civilian market was reduced to a nut (some professionals, maybe...) and many Government entities did need photo equipment... the items officially ordered by Army forces were probably all properly engraved, but many other Government related items were provided with no special markings. As a side not related to my Country, Italy was a "friend nation" (and military ally from1941) and the Italian importer (Cattaneo - Genova) did continue to receive Leitz gear in those years... I remember to have seen reproductions of factory delivery records which list Leica bodies and lenses delivered to Italy in '40 and '41 : personally, I own a Telyt 40 cm with a number of 1941 (567.044), which by logic arrived in italy through the importer... even if from some details I tend to think that, despite its number, it was probably assembled and delivered after War. In addition to the aforementioned Leitz Hektors, I own a number of Zeiss and Schneider lenses which have wartime serial numbers. None of them have military markings. I will post photos of some of these items. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted January 29, 2015 Share #12 Posted January 29, 2015 I have Hektor 73mm serial number 538209 and was lucky enough to find its entry in the register photographed on the following website (see the ninth image from the top). My Leica Historica: Fantastico "Outfit" Leica della Marina Militare It was sent on 14 November 1940 to Cattaneo at Genoa under contract number 14xxx, probably for use by Italian military. It survived the war (and the years since) in remarkably good shape, close to mint. Unlike its slightly younger sister, serial number 538211 (only two numbers apart), which went to the German navy at Kiel, mine has no military markings. Al, Do you think the military engravings were done by Leica themselves or by the military after they had received the cameras (they look a bit too good for that). In that some of these orders were quite small, it does seem a bit odd for those days, when fast production was vital, that the cameras were held up to have specific and sometimes elaborate markings engraved on them. In the UK all we got was the War Ministry "Broad Arrow". For example the Reid and Sigrist Model III I had in the 1950's, had that as its sole indicator of the original military owner. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted January 29, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 29, 2015 Wilson, I really know nothing about military markings beyond what I can make out in the Italian and German stuff linked above, but from them it seems settled that the markings were inscribed not at the factory in Wetzlar, but at the military depots. (This makes sense, among other things, of the fact that the shipment registers record shipments of individual lenses, bodies, etc., not of the kind of sets, sharing the same number and marking, thereafter created. This must all have happened outside Wetzlar). I assume that so much other German military equipment (not just Leitz of course) was marked in similar ways, that there must have been dedicated people at work, and that they could do so at relative speed. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabears Posted January 29, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 29, 2015 This is an old question, I wrote about it years ago. Even if nowadays it seems a forgotten matter, actually there were a lot of engravings done by Leica, and not only on cameras, see for the example on the various binoculars. On the latter you will find the widest range of different engravings. This matter is emblematic: considering the work involved in engraving markings on binoculars we think it would have to have been done at the factory. For example, we can't imagine the markings being applied to an already assembled binocular i.e. the prism plates would either have to be engraved before being attached to the binocular or else removed from the binocular, engraved and put back on. Note that installing prism plates is is not at all a simple procedure because it must be ensured the binocular is perfectly dust-free inside before installing the plate and when the plates were installed they would be sealed with a wax/grease type substance. Who else but the factory would have been qualified to do this? At the end, there are engravings and engravings, for sure one can engrave whatever he wants after the delivery, but usually you see the difference (usually the use of the pantograph was not done by the military workshops). Some engravings were actually done by Leitz agent in Berlin, Bergmann. Last: there are in the official registers evidences regarding military supplies, at least these are considered entirely finished by Leitz- 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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