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Fake or Real?


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Hello everyone, I'm new to the forum. At a flea market I bought a very cheap (50 EU) camera that I thought a false Leica. However, it is a strange false. First of all, it does not have the Leica logo engraved as a classic fake from Russia: the logo is a bas-relief and appears under a black skin (painture or lacquering?) that has been scraped off. Some details seem "Leica like" (e.g. the shape of the viewfinder window, the washer of the coupling lever); others details seem "ZorkiFed like" (e.s. the spring in the bottom). However the main strangeness is the serial number: it belongs to a Leica II, but the dial of the shutter times has 1/1000. Attention, the camera really has the time to 1/000, not only the dial. The digit of the written 1/000 on the dial are badly written, too. Leica II converted have also slow speed dial on the front, my strange false has not.

I'll try to post some pictures.

 

Thank (and I beg a pardon for my english)

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Clear my mind, please: jaapv means "fake....Zorki" = original Leica? Luigi (grazie del benvenuto, prima di tutto): vuoi dire che "è un cattivo scherzo fatto a una vera Leica che l'ha ridotta in cattive condizioni", o che "è un cattivo scherzo fatto a chi la compra credendola una vera Leica mentre è falsa"?

Edited by ottoiso
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Clear my mind, please: jaapv means "fake....Zorki" = original Leica? Luigi (grazie del benvenuto, prima di tutto): vuoi dire che "è un cattivo scherzo fatto a una vera Leica che l'ha ridotta in cattive condizioni", o che "è un cattivo scherzo fatto a chi la compra credendola una vera Leica mentre è falsa"?

 

I think (my opinion) is an original one...badly repaired/upgraded ; about the buyer, for 50 Euros the seller is ANYWAY on the honest' side... :cool:; if readable... what is the serial number ?

 

(English mandatory, apart the welcome... this is a REALLY international forum.... as the main Italian poster, which I'm pride to be, I hope you will continue to follow our community.:))

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ah ah ok guys, I see: double "no" the same as one "yes". False-false the same as true: no-(no-p) = p this is genuine logic!

Thank you all, very kind!

 

P:S. the answer to Luigi means: "Luigi, do you mean that "it is a bad joke made in a real Leica body" or that "it is a bad joke made to buyers believing it a true Leica"? S.n. 84***

Edited by ottoiso
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no doubt, Leica II is genuine, all components, including large speed dial and "lavatory seat" correspond with the production date. However I seriously doubt that 1/1000s was added by the factory. It was rather skilled repairman who replaced the speed disc and engraved speed dial. Anyhow, great item for 50 EUR, ideal candidate to restore back to the original II (without 1/1000s)

jerzy

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I agree with jerzy: an homemade upgrade, as it is showed by the speed dial. I wonder how such an upgrade is easy for a craftsman.

 

Universalb50: the camera is provided by bag and lens (serial n. indicates year 1936)

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. I wonder how such an upgrade is easy for a craftsman.

 

Having 3 genuine Leica parts (speed disc, rod with cam follower and shaft where the speed dial is mounted) it shall be not more than 2 hours including speed check/adjustment. If however everything has been home modified using original II parts than it is much more complicated and I would be in doubt if the speeds, especially 1/1000 are accurate. You would need to remove top cover to see. But I wonder if when set to 1/1000 - could you observe that speed dial stays higher than with other speeds? This could be indication, however not prove that genuine Leica parts were used for "upgrade"

Jerzy

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I agree with jerzy: an homemade upgrade, as it is showed by the speed dial. I wonder how such an upgrade is easy for a craftsman.

 

Universalb50: the camera is provided by bag and lens (serial n. indicates year 1936)

 

That lens looks surprisingly clear, given the condition of the camera.

I too think the 1000 is not a factory job, the engraving looks rather off.

Edited by jaapv
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jerzy: yes, at 1/1000 dial stays higher than with other speed.

 

jaapv: yes, the lens is surprisingly clear. The aperture blades are near the external lens, as it is in Elmar, not deeper as it is in Russian 50mm collapsible lens. This is an evidence whereby I think it is original.

 

luigi: the bit I know I learned here by the guys of the forum

Edited by ottoiso
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I too agree that it is a real Leica`II`and not a fake. I do not know if this will help but if the camera was found in the US, it may be one of those that were defaced in order to bring it into the country after WW II. The duties were very high after the war for German camras but if the Leica brand name or other name was defaced, it could be brought in duty free.

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I too agree that it is a real Leica`II`and not a fake. I do not know if this will help but if the camera was found in the US, it may be one of those that were defaced in order to bring it into the country after WW II. The duties were very high after the war for German camras but if the Leica brand name or other name was defaced, it could be brought in duty free.

 

very interesting! Some old cameras have travelled a lot!

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....

jaapv: yes, the lens is surprisingly clear. The aperture blades are near the external lens, as it is in Elmar, not deeper as it is in Russian 50mm collapsible lens. This is an evidence whereby I think it is original.

 

 

The Elmar is ABSOLUTELY an original one, and very fine too... and with a "correct" s/n (275.305, I seem... 1936 indeed... I have a Hektor 2,8cm very next to... 274.961) : if the price has been 50 Euros WITH it, you have definitely made a good deal : of course, Elmars are far from rare. but a fine Elmar is always a valuable item.

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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