Stealth3kpl Posted March 19, 2014 Share #1 Posted March 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've just received my first IIIf. Should the slow speed button turn freely or is there a lock? Pete Edit delete as I have just found how to use the lock Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Hi Stealth3kpl, Take a look here "New" Leica IIIf. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stealth3kpl Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share #2 Posted March 19, 2014 What problems would occur if I tried to load a film with a normal leader rather than one that has been trimmed for a length of 10cm? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 19, 2014 Share #3 Posted March 19, 2014 The camera will jam on bits of torn film :-O Gerry Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted March 19, 2014 Why is that? Can you help me understand? Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted March 19, 2014 Share #5 Posted March 19, 2014 It's to do with the configuration of the film guide rails and pressure plate. In ordinary cameras, the pressure plate is out of the way when you are loading the film; but in these Leicas the film has to shove the pressure plate out of the way as you slide it into the camera. IIRC the lowest guide rail is cut away at the "feed" end so (if there is a long tongue) the "shoulder" of the film can slip under the pressure plate. Some people use a trick with a bit of card or thin plastic to lift the pressure plate while they slip a short-tongued film in. Some of them go so far as to set the shutter to T and open it while they do so. IMHO it's less trouble just to cut a long leader with scissors or a very sharp blade. The exact shape doesn't matter provided it's long enough and there are no sharp corners. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaphilia Posted March 19, 2014 Share #6 Posted March 19, 2014 Some people use a trick with a bit of card or thin plastic to lift the pressure plate while they slip a short-tongued film in. Some of them go so far as to set the shutter to T and open it while they do so. IMHO it's less trouble just to cut a long leader with scissors or a very sharp blade. The exact shape doesn't matter provided it's long enough and there are no sharp corners. I find it easiest to just unscrew the lens; load the film on the take up spool outside of the camera and then insert into camera; use bulb setting to allow access to film from the front of the camera, where you can push it up into place. Then wind on and make sure the rewind knob is moving. Sounds like a PITA, but you get used to it quickly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted March 19, 2014 Share #7 Posted March 19, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I date back to when commercial film came cut to the correct leader length for old cameras, which was really easiest! When the film makers changed to short leader I tried the various work-arounds, and they sort of work, but all have the potential to slip up and damage the camera. So cutting film to a template (such as the Leica ABLON) is by far the easiest and safest. I have both an ABLON and a couple of generic copies from times past, so I cut the leaders before leaving home. I even found a generic leader template in my father's old photo materials from the early 1950s, that was with his film mounting and cutting materials for his Stereo Realist. He never had a Leica, and used the Realist up into the 1990s, so the templates were not unique to old Leica cameras. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 19, 2014 Share #8 Posted March 19, 2014 Needing a long leader is more to do with getting the film over the sprockets rather than fitting it under the pressure plate, so it is cut to allow one sprocket (the lowest) to engage then the top sprocket engage's as the film is wound on. You can load normal film pretty easily and get it over both sprockets if you take the lens off and put the camera on 'T', then use a finger to push it into place against the pressure plate. Regarding the slow speed dial, there should be a lock at 25th sec and pressing the little button (like a large pin head) allows the other speeds to be chosen, each of which engages with a gentle click. It should not spin freely. Steve 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 19, 2014 Share #9 Posted March 19, 2014 I find it easiest to just unscrew the lens; load the film on the take up spool outside of the camera and then insert into camera; use bulb setting to allow access to film from the front of the camera, where you can push it up into place. Then wind on and make sure the rewind knob is moving. Sounds like a PITA, but you get used to it quickly. In this method of film loading you must never let go of the release button prematurely, as long as your fingers reach through the open shutter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 19, 2014 Share #10 Posted March 19, 2014 It's really simple to trim the film leader, why faff about. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 19, 2014 Share #11 Posted March 19, 2014 ....You can load normal film pretty easily and get it over both sprockets if you take the lens off and put the camera on 'T', then use a finger to push it into place against the pressure plate. ... Steve The method I use(d) too : never cut the film and, as far as I remember, always succeded in loading correctly : I remember also that, for some reason probably related to the spool, it was someway easier on IIIc than on IIIf. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 20, 2014 Share #12 Posted March 20, 2014 It's really simple to trim the film leader, why faff about. Because by taking the lens off and using the 'T' setting you can see if the film is loaded properly which you cannot do by cutting the leader. The most seen fault in HCB's pictures when he was using a Barnack Leica are sprocket holes appearing along the lower edges of photographs, which in the upside down world of photography mean the film wasn't engaged on the top sprocket and square in the film gate. Now I don't know if he cut the long leader or not, but the same thing can happen with the long leader, and it can happen by stuffing normal film into the camera, but it can't happen in either case if you take the lens off and look where the film is, then give it a push in the right direction. In the case of HCB with enough books of his work you'll start to see the same photo reproduced with or without the sprocket holes, and given the amount of re-touching necessary I'd say that in his day he would have had to accept the holes showing. Anyway, its just a thought but it seems that the more recently published books are the ones with digital work done on the lower edge of some pictures. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 20, 2014 Share #13 Posted March 20, 2014 I thought sprocket holes showing is largely because preloaded cassettes are slightly less tall than the old Leica self-load ones, resulting in "play"? I know people who have "padded" the baseplate under the cassette with a small wad of paper for this reason. Sent from another Galaxy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 20, 2014 Share #14 Posted March 20, 2014 I've had my lllf for (blimey!!) 30 years now, bought when I was 17. In all that time I've only ever had one mis-load, which was on the Amsterdam One Challenge - my fault as I was running late and rushed loading the camera, and never had the sprocket holes problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 20, 2014 Share #15 Posted March 20, 2014 I thought sprocket holes showing is largely because preloaded cassettes are slightly less tall than the old Leica self-load ones, resulting in "play"? I know people who have "padded" the baseplate under the cassette with a small wad of paper for this reason. Sent from another Galaxy Hmm, maybe I'm wrong. But I have never had the sprocket holes show due to preloaded cassettes. However in HCB's 'Europeans' (Thames and Hudson 1988) there is an example on page 15 of sprocket holes 'just' encroaching into the frame from a picture made in 1932, plus one from 1937 on page 205. And I hadn't realised until this thread but nearly all the pictures printed from 1952 have the sprocket holes in the frame by a good margin so I guess he was using a new film stock/cassette or something and maybe only realised after many rolls had been used? I had the impression they were spread randomly over the early years. Still I prefer to see where the film is in relation to the gate, like loading with an M. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted March 20, 2014 Share #16 Posted March 20, 2014 On my Leica I (1930) the bottom of my frame invariably encounters the sprocket holes (that is, the top sprocket holes) of the negative. The frame is also not level, but slightly angles into the sprocket homes from left to right (that is, the take up spool is slightly deeper into the camera than the film cartridge). This is an issue that I have noticed for a long time, but so far am unable to resolve satisfactorily, even with the help of a highly experienced technician. Removing the lens and opening the shutter to try Steve's ingenious checking of proper film alignment, is clearly not a practical possibility every time one loads a Leica I! The sloping frame particularly annoys me because I am using the old Stereoly attachment to shoot stereo transparencies. These have to be dead level in order to be properly viewed. (With my screwmount Elmar 50 f/3.5 mounted on an M6, and the Stereoly held to the lens by rubber bands, I get much better results - but clearly this setup is not ideal!). I will try not pushing the take up spool as deep into the body of the camera. A millimetre out to do it. If anyone has further ideas, I'd be grateful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 20, 2014 Share #17 Posted March 20, 2014 The wad of paper "fix" I referred to would push the cassette deeper into the body. I suppose it depends where your sprockets are appearing.,, 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted March 20, 2014 Share #18 Posted March 20, 2014 I thought sprocket holes showing is largely because preloaded cassettes are slightly less tall than the old Leica self-load ones, resulting in "play"? I know people who have "padded" the baseplate under the cassette with a small wad of paper for this reason. Yes, but the IIIf model added a film guide post to the baseplate that fits up a machined channel in the body casting up to the film channel to keep the film in the rails properly: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This can also cause a problem with a short-leader film, if it is used to try and force the film through the upper rail it can instead bend/tear the lower edge of the film. So I still say the safest is to trim the leader to the proper shape. BTW - I have a IIIf that started as a IIIa and was "upgraded" to a IIIf - which entailed a completely new body. I noticed this still had the IIIc baseplate without the guide post. The IIIf casting used for the upgrade had the channel for the post cast in the die, but the channel wasn't finish machined, so a IIIf baseplate still won't fit. Curious factory variations... Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! This can also cause a problem with a short-leader film, if it is used to try and force the film through the upper rail it can instead bend/tear the lower edge of the film. So I still say the safest is to trim the leader to the proper shape. BTW - I have a IIIf that started as a IIIa and was "upgraded" to a IIIf - which entailed a completely new body. I noticed this still had the IIIc baseplate without the guide post. The IIIf casting used for the upgrade had the channel for the post cast in the die, but the channel wasn't finish machined, so a IIIf baseplate still won't fit. Curious factory variations... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/223832-new-leica-iiif/?do=findComment&comment=2553296'>More sharing options...
bill Posted March 20, 2014 Share #19 Posted March 20, 2014 Mine's a IID that started life as a I... I live with the sprocket holes; they are difficult to add digitally Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted March 20, 2014 Share #20 Posted March 20, 2014 The wad of paper "fix" I referred to would push the cassette deeper into the body. I suppose it depends where your sprockets are appearing.,, Thanks, Bill, but my problem is rather the other way around, I believe: i.e. the frame encounters the sprocket holes because the film is pushed in too deep, and is slanted because it is deeper on the take-up spool side. But your wad-solution might still work, at least to level out the frame. It's not the most elegant, and one would have to think how to keep the wad (or pieces thereof) from entering further into the camera, but I concede it is practical. Normally a millimeter of sprocket holes showing would par for the course with a camera like a Leica I, even a nice 'negative signature' with respectable precedent. What bothers me rather more is the slight frame misalignment that interferes with the stereo viewing of images taken with a Stereoly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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