50mm

[stnami]

Summicron, Summitar, Elmar, Summarit or whatever at 50mm don't know the differences is there in results?
Thanks

[k_g_wolf]

You could write a (small) book about the differences between those lenses, to some LEICA- enthusiasts they are big, to others minor ... That´s something which needs a genius to give an answer in a minute. People don´t normally have time for more on the internet.


But:
--------------------------

Try: ERWIN PUTS, >>LEICA Lens Compendium<< Hove Books, 2001.

This book will most likely answer most of the questions you can have about almost all LEICA- lenses, not only towards these 50mm- lenses you mentioned above.



Best

[vic vic]

imants, whats that?? u want to buy to take pics or collection??

for pics .. new voigtlanders, beleive me the nokton voigtlander is almost as good as the summilux. there is even smaller and slower 50 lens from voigtlander.
if u particularly want old leica lens because of historic issue or aesthetic taste then thats a different story. sumarit 50/1.5 is a lens that many of old pics of my family by my dad and grand-dad was done with. so i have some special love to its "look". with some experimentations, the old lenses can be used very interestingly with the new materials (wether bb/w or slide).

[earleygallery]

Imants,

Would I be right in guessing that you're looking for something sharp but less contrasty than newer lenses?

I would recommend the Elmar - a coated black scale version. The red scale Elmar is shows more contrast (its also more expensive).

[dkpeterborough]

Leica Pocket Book 7th Edition documents all performance data for these lenses ... most useful book for data on all lenses and cameras from 1925 up to date of publication

Dunk

[stnami]

I have a 25/35 mm voigtlanders and they are a bit contrasty, good for dull days, a 50, it's got to be softer and less contrast. What is the sumarit look? James is spot on where I am heading............... it's got to be small as well

[earleygallery]

Imants, if you want a faster lens than the Elmar, a Summar or Summitar are worth considering.

A good clean Summar apparently produces acceptably sharp results. Its very difficult to find a clean one however as the glass is very soft and scratches easily. I was at a photo fair in London recently and found - and bought - a very nice one. I'm shooting with it on the lllf at the moment and will post some results. I looked at quite a few others at the same fair, but they were the usual hazy/foggy/scratched examples that will result in soft images (when people describe the Summar as a soft lens they usually mean soft in a the look of the images, but it should really refer to the soft glass which is often the reasons for the soft images....I hope to find that this is the case anyway!).

One dealer did have a mint/boxed Summar. It looked like brand new but at £300 I just couldn't afford it! In some ways it was a bargain - how many truly mint Summars are out there?

The Summitar is another f2 lens, more easily found in good condition it seems, and from what I've read is similar or slightly better in quality than the Summar. I have tried one and it also produces lower contrast images.

Any of these lenses will meet your needs I'm sure, but see what others think...

[vic vic]

ok ok got u and james.

imants, u push me to do something that i dont belive in )) hahah - showing lens characters on interent files and junky scans )

ok, the first one is a double range summicron at open aperture f2. one femous photographer's - just played with it - a bit dim light in the room but no dramatic sources of flaring. listen to this... this lens is very accurate but it doesnt have the punch and the fines of modern lenses like summilux/nokton. it shows details but without volume that u can see in the summilux/nokton.

the summarit 1.5/50 is the second pic with me and my cousen. the film is some german owro, very good one, reminds adox50, so it also should be concidered as part of the "look". the scan from baryta paper (in georgia, i think the superstar agfa or sometrhing russian that was copy of agfa). the lens flares eassily. the finest of recording is not as good as summicron above. the open aperture is very painting like. the film deffenetly needs adjustment to this lens. with summicron a picture still can be preinted ok with normal film adjustments of summilux , but with this lens - no way, unless that super flary image is what u want of course (might be nice in colour).

generally, i think that there is a little mistake about thinking of the new lenses as not that good in contrasty situation. i think it is all about adjusting the film. when u do it, the modern lens is simply superior. the point is that in contrasty situation the older lenses will have alot of flare usually or at least some flare. this means that u have washed the shadows and hihjlights and made dull the midtones. a much better balancing effect would be to use modern lens in contrasty situation with its clearness, and then make softer film treatment with more deluted developing, or less aggitation or simply less time, or even by pulling the film. u will get clear film with balanced tonality.

but, of course using old lens wether in contrasty or not-contrasty will give u different chracter.

[thomasw_]

Originally Posted by vic vic

imants, whats that?? u want to buy to take pics or collection??

for pics .. new voigtlanders, beleive me the nokton voigtlander is almost as good as the summilux. there is even smaller and slower 50 lens from voigtlander.
if u particularly want old leica lens because of historic issue or aesthetic taste then thats a different story. sumarit 50/1.5 is a lens that many of old pics of my family by my dad and grand-dad was done with. so i have some special love to its "look". with some experimentations, the old lenses can be used very interestingly with the new materials (wether bb/w or slide).

I think the summarit 50/1.5 is my 2nd favourite leica lens behind the current summilux 50; and there some aspects of its signature I prefer over my summilux; accordingly I keep this lens on my M3 a lot of the time Many do not appreciate this lens, however.

i disagree that the VC 35/1.2 is almost as good as the summilux 35/1.4; in terms of image quality it is just as good wide open, though wonderfully different Though the size/weight difference between the VC 35/1.2 and Summilux 35 is much like comparing the summilux 50/1.4 to the noctilux 50/1.0. But the VC 35/1.2 has a smashing signature. And don't we use lenses for this reason for our creative ends?

As regards the original post: the 5cm FL is my favourite bar none. If you are looking for a vintage look with a 5cm lens, then get yourself an Elmar 50/3,5 or 50/2,8. A very versatile lens. Another versatile, though, harder lens to get a feel for -- at least for me -- is the 50/2 summitar. After many years I have found it to be a very subtle lens, even more so than the elmar 50s. I love the OOF areas in portraits with the summitar. Again, it takes a while to get a feel for any lens, but I found the summitar's subtle secrets to come after a while. The Elmar is immediately effective in street shooting during the day. I recommend the 2.8 over the 3.5 though, especially if you want to shoot on overcast lowlight days.

my 2cents cdn.

respectfully,
thomasw

[luigi bertolotti]

To me, Elmar is still the best workhorse: robust (lenses are less prone to damage than Summarit and Summitar), compact, and the ideal performances for one who wants to balance global quality with "old stylish" : I have always found that it performs "lineary" from wide open to f11 : open=taste of low contrast, f8 or f11=Summicron-like

[stnami]

James states there are two Elmar s not identical?.. thanks guys still thinking.............. its low contrast soft... What's a 5cm FL?.......... understand about new lenses but ... not what I am chasing

[vic vic]

ok imants,
then maybe the suggested elamr by guys here is good for u really. ah, the 50/1.5 summirat is almost the same volume as summilux, so it is not tiny like elmar and the amazing snapskop 25mm )

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by stnami

What's a 5cm FL...

5cm Focal Length?

[stnami]

Yea the elmar fud sounds like that is my direction, ah it will have a different footprint, that is the main thing. My next major shoot is with pentax gear well they sponser it........ a day in a coal mine so its an old ME and a 28.......should be interesting......... thanks Steve logic should have told me so, sometimes I wonder about the brain bucket dept.

[Mark Antony]

I have a 50mm Elmar F2:8 softish and lower in contrast up until F4-5.6 by F8 it seems to perform very well and is my 50mm of choice:


look at this page
Leica Camera Stuff Photo Gallery by Mark Smith at pbase.com
scroll down and you'll see a Elmar, Summarit, Summicron (1960s DR) and Canon LTM all taken within 15min timeframe at same F stop.
Mark

[stnami]

Thanks Guys
I reckon I will ponder over things ,,,.... all interesting. The canon 35mm on Mark's site appealed to me colour and tone wise

[Mark Antony]

Originally Posted by stnami

Thanks Guys
I reckon I will ponder over things ,,,.... all interesting. The canon 35mm on Mark's site appealed to me colour and tone wise

The Canon is a really good lens, I have heard that CV use the same basic design for their 35 F2:5 Skopar but I like the Canon's flare resistance and 'bokeh' not to mention the price
Oh and the colour rendition is nice:

Thats on Kodachrome 200

[antiquecameras.net]

See my Leica Lens pages to help:


Leica M Lens Info & Price Guide


Leica 50mm Summicron Lens Info & Price Guide


Good luck

Dan

[liesevolvo]

My choice: Leitz Elmar 'red scale' (always use a shade!!!) and V/C Nokton. Affordable! Different enough!

The combination of the Elmar and LTR or M gives a most compact shooter. The fast Nokton is really good at low light. And, important (only for me?): It looks great on an M.

I had the slower V/C 50 Color Skopar, and sold it. Good, lens, but not for my needs. May be the 2/50 Collapsible Heliar is a good compromise, but I didn't try.

To Elmar: MUST be coated to be used, MUST be absolutely clean, IS a bit tricky in using the stop-adjustment, especially with the original lens-hood. Have a little patience to buy a good one.

Best regards!

Leonard Liese, Cologne, Germany

Excuse my English

P.S.: a good Elmar is much fun on a bellows! The opinion to collapse it gives a fair range of use, a simple construction like the Elmar is more 'tolerant'.

[liesevolvo]

'opinion'? Nonsense! ''option!'' Oh my God....

But this option (!!!!!) makes the Elmar-50 quite versatile, because you have a 'rough' focus before you do the 'fine' one.

Leonard Liese