1956 50/2 & 1959 90/2.8 after Repair & CLA

[k-hawinkler]

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Being able to use over half a century old Leitz lenses on the latest digital full frame rangefinder Leica camera M9 is utterly fascinating to me, even worth the risk of getting somewhat damaged lenses that were advertised as being in correct working order. In the current market, I think it is unrealistic to expect to buy pristine old lenses at the lower price range. That then raises the interesting question what is a better strategy, to buy lenses advertised - correctly or not - as "mint" or "minty" and correspondingly priced or to buy cheaper ones that most likely have some flaws that hopefully can be remedied by Leica CS or a qualified technician.

 

Having lately bought mostly an eclectic mix of old and fairly new but used Leitz/Leica lenses, my experience has been mixed. Most older lenses just require a CLA. However, I have a few that required some level of repair, i.e. haze removal, repairing brass gouge marks on a retainer ring that prevent focusing, and recoating of a lens element. On average, so far, repair and CLA has added an additional cost of about 25% to the purchase price. Adding missing 6-bit coding adds about 5% for newer more expensive lenses and about 10% for older less expensive ones.

 

Buying a brand new lens is not necessarily trouble free. In fact I just got back from Leica NJ a new Summilux-M ASPH 50/1.4 that didn't focus correctly and required repair (they didn't say what kind of repair) and CLA. I still have to check in detail whether it works within specs now. A quick superficial check seems to indicate proper focusing now.

 

Anyway, as I am not buying these lenses as a collector or plan to sell them, but in fact use all of them on a regular basis, I consider the extra costs reasonable in order to have correctly functioning Leica gear to take photographs.

 

I am really curious to learn how other members of this forum deal with these kinds of issues.

 

Now to the two lenses mentioned in the thread title.

 

The first, a 1956 Rigid Summicron 50/2, upon close inspection, a technician found brass gouge marks on a retainer ring that prevented focusing.

 

The second lens, a 1959 Elmarit 90/2.8, seemed to have some damage to its front element that was pretty apparent. The technician polished off the old coating and recoated it.

 

How do these lenses perform now - after repair and CLA? Let's see. The following images are not intended as a scientifically definitive proof of anything - and they aren't! They show however how I use them occasionally.

 

This image shows the Rigid Summicron lens head on UOORF, SOMKY, and M9 for close focus.

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It was taken with the Elmarit lens head on focus mount and adapter on a Nikon D3. The Elmarit has the advantage that it can focus down to 50 cm without additional gear.

 

In the following image the roles are reversed. It shows the D3/Elmarit combination as photographed by the M9/SOMKY/UOORF/Rigid Summicron.

 

The following 6 images were taken on a little walk with M9 and Rigid Summicron.

 

Bradbury Science Museum

 

Workmen

 

Ashley Pond

 

Los Alamos Fire Department Truck

 

OASIS

 

Back to beginning of walk

 

Well, the lenses now look usable to me.

 

K-H.

[robert_parker]

I think you can safely say they are !!

 

Is there a hint of age in the photo of Ashley Pond ? If so it is more the case of character, like the character fine leather shows or the patina on a silver goblet.

 

The image of the workmen, in colour and detail, is stunning

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[dpitt]

Glad to see that I am not the only one that likes the look of old lenses on a digital body.

My M8 is used often with a Summicron 50 collapsible a 90 Elmarit, and a 135 Elamar. All from the 50s.

 

 

I bought the 50 in a set with a M3. The 50 did not have any cleaning marks and was relatively free of haze which is rare for this type. Unfortunately it had the start of pitting corrosion. Will van Maenen recommended an urgent CLA to stop that an save what was possible. It turned out well, the CLA states some residue left, but that is only because Will is such a perfectionist.

 

 

The foto's have a certain 'glow' that my 50 summilux pre-asph does not have. The 50 is also a lot easier to carry, so it sits on my M8 most of the time.

 

 

The 135 Elmar also produces great results on the M8. It is not used as often as the 50 of course...

 

 

Regarding strategy. I think I would always prefer to have the CLA done myself. So I would rether buy a lens with haze and small issues than buy it mint at a premium.

Even if the seller honestly thinks it is mint, it does not always mean it is.

 

 

I also have bad experienses buying from collectors. They never use what they have. So it may not function as well as it looks.

 

 

Best buys are from people that switched to digital recently or retired... It may look more used, but reasonable functional state is guaranteed.

[k-hawinkler]

Robert,

 

Thanks for the feedback.

I like fine leather and patina as well.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

Dirk,

 

Thanks, you are not the only one.

You have some very fine old lenses as well.

I am also partial to the 135 mm focal length.

In my case I got the Tele-Elmar 135/4.

I would love to see some of your images taken with your old lenses.

 

It sounds like I followed in your foot steps and pursued a similar strategy.

I hope other forum members share their experiences as well.

 

I certainly don't have the tools or skills to reliably and dependably assess the condition of old or even new lenses.

I assume most sellers of old gear are in a similar situation. Also, mistakes happen.

 

So, I am particularly happy that John Van Stelten of Focal Point Inc. was willing to check out my Leitz/Leica gear.

He also did an absolutely outstanding job repairing and CLA'ing my lenses, visoflexes, and telyts.

John's specialties include lens polishing and re-coating, lens cement separation repairs, and fungus and haze removal.

 

Of course, Will van Manen & Cathy Kuiper of Will van Manen Kamera-Service are at the top of their game as well.

In fact they advised me and referred me to their colleagues over here in the US to avoid customs hassles between the EU and US.

Furthermore, Cathy Kuiper has been second to none when it comes to communication. She is in a league all by herself.

 

Thanks again for your candid feedback.

 

Best, K-H.

[dpitt]

K-H,

 

I am no expert as well. Just starting in the Leica M world coming from a Digilux2.

These are some shots from my 50cron collapsible with recent CLA:

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[dpitt]

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And these come from my M8 with 135 Elmar. As mentioned above, I do not use any magnifier on the rangefinder.

[dpitt]

Sorry, missed the upload

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[k-hawinkler]

Dirk,

 

Thank you so much.

Those are lovely shots that become more precious with time.

Our grandchildren are in about the same age range.

 

I am completely new to the Leica universe as well and got my M9 at the end of December 2009.

Never had a Leica before.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

Dirk,

 

Thanks. You are putting the Elmar 135/4 to great use as well.

Nice bird portraits.

 

Thanks again. Best, K-H.

[dpitt]

K-H,

 

Bear in mind that results might differ on a M9. The M8 is using only the center part of these lenses. The differences with modern lenses are more pronounced in the corners so a full frame will challenge these oldies more than an M8.

 

 

Regards,

Dirk

[atul]

@k-hawinkler - those are great images. Love them.

 

I'm curious to know who were the US-based repair shop that Will van Manen recommended?

 

I have a 1954 (56?) vintage collapsible Summicron that acquired a few months ago, and would love to get some CLA done on it.

 

Thanks!

atul

Chicago

[k-hawinkler]

@k-hawinkler - those are great images. Love them.

 

I'm curious to know who were the US-based repair shop that Will van Manen recommended?

 

I have a 1954 (56?) vintage collapsible Summicron that acquired a few months ago, and would love to get some CLA done on it.

 

Thanks!

atul

Chicago

 

 

Here you go: LHSA Repair Services

Will van Manen did not recommend anyone in particular but this cast of characters.

 

Best, K-H.

[jc_braconi]

Karl Heinz you did a good and the right investment.

Congratulations for the picts you posted

[k-hawinkler]

Hi JC,

 

Many thanks.

I always appreciate your advice and feedback.

 

Indeed, it appears I got lucky this time.

 

Best, K-H.

[luigi bertolotti]

I'm particulary happy you have the old Summicron WITH the SOMKY-UOORF combo...... my favorite "quick macro set" with M8...

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I like to think that on M8 the Cron 50 roughly equals a 65mm... the well known focal of the historical Elmar designed for macro usage too...

I add that many photo of my gear, posted mainly in this section, are taken with this combo: easy to carry around (the above pic was taken at 2600 meters about), quick to mount, easy to focus-

[k-hawinkler]

Hi Luigi,

 

Many thanks. I knew it was your favorite, that's why I got that combo in the first place.

You always demonstrate great taste. How can I go wrong with that?

 

BTW, that's a stunning picture. Absolutely gorgeous.

2600 m that's about 8500 feet - if I am not mistaken. Cool.

 

Santa Fe and Los Alamos are around 7300 feet.

The highest mountain around here is Truchas Peak (Elevation: 13102 ft / 3993 m).

Unfortunately, New Mexico doesn't have a fourteen thousander.

 

In the Jemez the highest peak is Tschicoma (11561 ft / 3524 m).

Los Alamos Ski area is from 9000 to 10440 ft. One can now go there again after the fire.

I'll have to go up there and take some pictures. I already was briefly up there.

Some parts of the ski area seem to be fine. But the way up there looks pretty grim.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best, K-H.

[darylgo]

Thanks K-H and Luigi for posting about lenses. The difficulty I have purchasing items unseen or with issues is I don't know what can or can not be repaired. A good camera shop selling used items also provides value, especially if they have their own repair service available. Often times they will do the CLA prior to selling the item, and the premium for this is in line with what you mention. If there is a problem with the lens I normally return it or they will do the repair and there is no additional charge. A used item becomes more of a certainty this way.

[k-hawinkler]

Reviving this old thread, here is a shot imaged slightly differently, taken with M9 and Rigid Summicron.

 

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100% Crop

Edited October 29, 2014 by k-hawinkler

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear