Summicron - M 35mm 1st Ver. - What's so special.

[ron110n]

Thanks Theodor, Dan, Moritz, Jan, Phillipe, Bryan, P.G., Tobey, Andreas, J.C., Eduardo and JGW.

Thanks for the input. The lens signature is quite unique from the later crons.
This link is what I found interesting about the cron 1st ver with two samples.

Leica and Rangefinders Forum: I just bought a 1st generation 35mm Summicron, now what should I do?.

To my taste, it will be perfect for people shots.

JGW:
Thanks for the Japanese link and tons of samples.
Isn't it interesting how all the good leica lenses and bodies are ending up in Japan. Most of the 1956 - 1957 MP are mostly in Japan. A scratchy one, market at 30k.

Thanks guys for the input!

-Ron

[Maciel]

Originally Posted by wizard

And why would that be? Do you own this lens and speak from experience? Apart from its performance wide open, this lens still produces outstanding results, extremely sharp with nice colors and good contrast. I use it with my M3, as there is no other goggled 35mm lens, and also own the latest 35asph. Believe me, at anything from f4 you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference.


Cheers,

Andy

Yeah, well...
It is the performance wide open where Leica lenses shine. So to say it is fine from f4 on is really missing the point. I would claim that one would be quite challenged to tell most 35 'crons from the 35 Color Skopar or Ultron from f4 up. If you don't believe me, look at MTFs.

Disclaimer: Yep, I did use the lens (M3 version, focusing to 26'') for 5 years on my M3, M6, MP, before I sold it to somebody who believed it is something special optically.
BTW, mechanically it may the best 35 'cron.

Andreas

[wizard]

Point taken, Andreas. But now you tell me how I am able to get a correctly exposed shot using f2 - f4 on an M-Leica (excluding the M8 with its faster shutter) if the weather is sunny...

P.S.: I'm not really fancying ND-filters!

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by ron110n

I noticed that a chrome Summicron 35 ver 1 (Bayonet M Mount) at mint condition sell @ almost the same price of a new cron 35 asph.
What's so special about the lens signature.
Can someone post images from a cron 35 1st. ver or post links.
I'm curious and I've never seen images from the 1st. ver. before.

Is it just a classic / collectors value, or is there a performance value behind the old timer.

B&W will be most appriciated. =)
But colored is fine.

Thanks,
-Ron

The Summicron 35 1st (8 lenses), as other correctly have posted, is effectively very rare when made in Wetzlar, so is a very appreciated collector item. I have one, n. 1.971.229, chrome, and it is also a very good lens to use, even if i think that, not surprisely, the recent asph can perform better (I have not one); anyway, I have also a 2nd type black Canada 2.483. 459, and in my mood the 1st type is overall better: i think it is a question of design itself, not agreeing at all with some people in the collector's world that argue "Wetzlar better than Canada" : by myself, the best 35 I own is the Summilux 35 (1960 vintage, very first production runs: 1.765.850) and the best 90 the nano Elmarit 2,8 1st type: both Canda, extraordinary quality in use, and also very small and portable. I have in plan to acquire an M8 soon: I am already excited thinking to all the strange combinations I will try: just as an example : I have a 135 finder so...what is better than using the "Alpine Elmar" 10,5 as a 135 on M8?

[Maciel]

Originally Posted by wizard

Point taken, Andreas. But now you tell me how I am able to get a correctly exposed shot using f2 - f4 on an M-Leica (excluding the M8 with its faster shutter) if the weather is sunny...

P.S.: I'm not really fancying ND-filters!

Too bad about the ND filter...

There is this film or that one.
Or some other stuff you might have in the freezer.
Those usually allow me to get down to less than f4 in sunny weather.

But obviously you are right, it is one of the true limitations to film Ms at this point. But now that they have developed the shutter for the M8, we will likely see it on the next film M. Even if it is just an updated MP (or LSHA MPxyz).

Sorry about the off-topic post.

Andreas

[jc_braconi]

Luigi,
Thanks for this reply, very close to the one I 'ld post,
you are not the only one to be excited about trying these venerable lenses on the M8 and
I can tell you, that we ran some test with one of my friend and we found that this summilux 35 is the one we, IOHO, that do not need any filter on !
the best one for the moment on a batch of 50's - 70's prod.lenses
Enjoy ! Auguri !
jc

[luigi bertolotti]

Originally Posted by jc_braconi

Luigi,
Thanks for this reply, very close to the one I 'ld post,
you are not the only one to be excited about trying these venerable lenses on the M8 and
I can tell you, that we ran some test with one of my friend and we found that this summilux 35 is the one we, IOHO, that do not need any filter on !
the best one for the moment on a batch of 50's - 70's prod.lenses
Enjoy ! Auguri !
jc

So, You have tested the Summilux 35 and found fine? GREAT! Did you test also the Tele Elmarit 90 2,8 I quoted (1st type, as I said, the "nano")? I love this lens and would like a lot to have good results with my (yet-to-buy...) M8; I own also Summicron 90 and Elmar 90, but prefer the above

[ron110n]

Thanks for your input Luigi.

Chiao!

-Ron

[colorflow]

[quote=Maciel]Yeah, well...
It is the performance wide open where Leica lenses shine. So to say it is fine from f4 on is really missing the point. I would claim that one would be quite challenged to tell most 35 'crons from the 35 Color Skopar or Ultron from f4 up. If you don't believe me, look at MTFs.

It's a wonderful lens wide open or stopped down. Sharpness and MTF are not the only criteria for a lens. Eisenstaedt and Cartier-Bresson did not have any ASPH lenses.

Alan

[bscott]

I have a 35mm f2 made for the M3. The lens was made in Canada serial no. 1652431 is this collectable and is it one of the first versions?

[doubice]

Originally Posted by bscott

I have a 35mm f2 made for the M3. The lens was made in Canada serial no. 1652431 is this collectable and is it one of the first versions?

Bill,

Your Summicron is from early 1959 production. Since there apparently were only 4 made in 1958 (first year), your lens is very early. As to collectability - just under 10,000 were produced, as opposed to over 11,000 for the non-goggled 8-element M2 version.

Jan

[jc_braconi]

Luigi
I own these lenses too, every one have its own caracter, the one I test on the M8 is the Summicron 90 pre asph. and when you know your lenses very well you can appreciate that the M8 is not a liar.
Enjoy
jc