jc_braconi Posted January 22, 2010 Share #1 Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The Tele Elmarit 2.8/180 made in 1965 code 11910 serial # 2 082501 – 2 082800. Introduced for use with the visoflex II and III. The allocated serial numbers indicate a batch of 300 despite a code word allocation it did not appear on the European catalogs and the entire lot was sold exclusively to the New York representative. The design is very close to the Zeiss Olympic Sonnar 2.8/180 from 1936. The Tele Elmarit 2.8/180 was a Schneider design and there are some points that indicate that the lens was manufactured by Schneider. Considered as a mysterious lens by its rarity and the story of its distribution. The lens weight 1140 grams due to the thick glass and the heavy mount. Filter Series VIII. Illustrated here, winking at Luigi 1 test pict with the lens on a R8/DMR open at 2.8, offhand, one in natural light 1/250s . No cropping. http://www.summilux.net/visoflex/objectifs/TeleElmarit180-exemple.jpg Edited February 25, 2014 by jc_braconi updated links 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22, 2010 Posted January 22, 2010 Hi jc_braconi, Take a look here The Tele Elmarit 2.8/180 one of the very few. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted January 22, 2010 Share #2 Posted January 22, 2010 (edited) Good find, JC ! and exactly 200 from my 2.082.762 !! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P.S. :your presence is needed at the M1--->M2 thread... Edited January 22, 2010 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! P.S. :your presence is needed at the M1--->M2 thread... ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110315-the-tele-elmarit-28180-one-of-the-very-few/?do=findComment&comment=1196163'>More sharing options...
Stefan-S Posted January 22, 2010 Share #3 Posted January 22, 2010 What is the IQ of the lens,compared to the Telyt 4/200? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 22, 2010 Share #4 Posted January 22, 2010 IQ ? The real issue of this lens is usability when hand-held... is heavy and heavy to focus too... the rotating barrel has a massive triplet of glass into (as JC says, the design is "Olympia Sonnar" type : front element - triplet - back element) : so the M+Viso+lens combo is well over 2 kg and uneasily balanced: I think this is the reason for its commercial failure (I have a theory about why it was sold in USA only...) : I made a handeld comparision at f 5,6 / 5 metres of my trio (180 - 200 f4 - 200 f4,5) : surprisingly, oldest was the best... at 2,8 anyway the Elmarit has a very good contrast , but of course the DOF is so negligible that a practical usage of it it's rather uneven. Well... let'say it's a fine collectible. (haven't examples on this PC...) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 23, 2010 Share #5 Posted January 23, 2010 The lenes are definitely made by Schneider. I bought the Schneider prototype from the Westlichte auction a couple of years ago. It is Schneider serial number 8666904, although there is NO manufacturer engraved on the lens. You are lucky to find an example in mint condition. All the ones I have seen previously, including mine, have been heavily used. The photographers who bought these lenses were professionals and not collectors. This lens does pre-date the famous Nikon 180 f2.8, which is only slightly lighter and sold in very large numbers. Both lenses could have used a rotating tripod mount. The smooth operation of a Nikon F, compared to the long throw of the Visoflex III release arm, makes all the difference in the world for handholding. Of course the Nikon also has an automatic diaphram. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 23, 2010 Share #6 Posted January 23, 2010 (edited) The lenes are definitely made by Schneider. I bought the Schneider prototype from the Westlichte auction a couple of years ago. It is Schneider serial number 8666904, although there is NO manufacturer engraved on the lens. You are lucky to find an example in mint condition. All the ones I have seen previously, including mine, have been heavily used. The photographers who bought these lenses were professionals and not collectors. . Yes, is probable, and is my theory about USA only sales of this lens... I noticed that the (only) year in which the 180 2,8 was sold (1965) was the same year in which Leitz N.Y. made the modified Visoflex III for coupling to the Leica M electric motor... the number of those special Viso III is very similar to the number of Elmarit 180s (around 300) : my hipotesis is that Leitz N.Y. tried to setup a specific set for professionals with quick action needs (sport photographers ? after all, in baseball you have quick actions in rather "fixed" positions... in basket too... good situation for a wide open tele), maybe for some bid to some photo agency... is probable that the feedback wasn't so good (they were the times in which SLRs were quickly catching on) and the lens didn't survive (so as the "motor" Viso). BTW... I remember the Schneider prototype for sale at Westlicht... very intriguing item, happy it went to a member of our forum... Edited January 23, 2010 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted January 24, 2010 Share #7 Posted January 24, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Luigi, thanks for the information. I had no idea so many electric Viso III's were made. Just from the number I have seen for sale, they seem rarer than the 180 lens. By the way, I use my lens on an M8 with a JPL Pellicle Viso III. It really is a sweet combination, although not as sharp as modern Leica lenses. I do not have the JPL that was auctioned by Westlicht a few years ago; mine came from KEH camera in Atlanta, GA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2010 Share #8 Posted May 25, 2010 @On my Tele-Elmarit M 2.8-180 a preowner has engraved quite unprofessional the code L-457754760 which is not the number of the lens (2082xxx). Has any of you experts an idea what that might be? Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 27, 2010 Share #9 Posted May 27, 2010 Can you post a pic showing the engraving ? I'd be curios if it looks surely a "home made" one or if it could be a Leitz N.Y. identification (Lnnnn...., maybe Loan to <customer's code>?) . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2010 Share #10 Posted May 27, 2010 @Luigi, thank you for your reply on this old link. No, I cannot imagine that Leitz New York would have signed a lens in that stupid manner. It looks more like a model's phone-no or something like that, which she perhaps scratched with a hairpin to the Tele-Elmarit, so that the photographer would never forget to send her some pictures. I am really happy she didn't ruin the front-lens..... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110315-the-tele-elmarit-28180-one-of-the-very-few/?do=findComment&comment=1335998'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 27, 2010 Share #11 Posted May 27, 2010 @Luigi, thank you for your reply on this old link. No, I cannot imagine that Leitz New York would have signed a lens in that stupid manner. It looks more like a model's phone-no or something like that, which she perhaps scratched with a hairpin to the Tele-Elmarit, so that the photographer would never forget to send her some pictures. I am really happy she didn't ruin the front-lens..... Bleah !!! Thanks... definitely not a Leitz lab engraving... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted May 27, 2010 Share #12 Posted May 27, 2010 It looks more like a model's phone-no or something like that, which she perhaps scratched with a hairpin to the Tele-Elmarit, so that the photographer would never forget to send her some pictures. Did you try to call the number? Might be interesting to hear who would answer the phone! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 27, 2010 Share #13 Posted May 27, 2010 (edited) Did you try to call the number? Might be interesting to hear who would answer the phone! Yup, good idea : if it's a model tel. number a call can open interesting perspectives.. she ought to be a fine girl... (in 1965-68...when probably the lens was used... ) Edited May 27, 2010 by luigi bertolotti Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron (Netherlands) Posted May 29, 2010 Share #14 Posted May 29, 2010 (edited) @Luigi, thank you for your reply on this old link. No, I cannot imagine that Leitz New York would have signed a lens in that stupid manner. It looks more like a model's phone-no or something like that, which she perhaps scratched with a hairpin to the Tele-Elmarit, so that the photographer would never forget to send her some pictures. I am really happy she didn't ruin the front-lens..... Nine digits: probably a US social security number. 457 as first 3 digits means that the number was issued in Texas Edited May 29, 2010 by Ron (Netherlands) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 13, 2011 Share #15 Posted May 13, 2011 Last sunday I took up these pictures of an old coal crane to Stuttgart with M8.2, Visoflex III and Tele-Elmarit 2,8 - 180mm at ISO 160, full aperture and about 1/2000sec. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110315-the-tele-elmarit-28180-one-of-the-very-few/?do=findComment&comment=1671073'>More sharing options...
Pecole Posted May 13, 2011 Share #16 Posted May 13, 2011 The lenes are definitely made by Schneider. I bought the Schneider prototype from the Westlichte auction a couple of years ago. It is Schneider serial number 8666904, although there is NO manufacturer engraved on the lens. You are lucky to find an example in mint condition. All the ones I have seen previously, including mine, have been heavily used. The photographers who bought these lenses were professionals and not collectors. This lens does pre-date the famous Nikon 180 f2.8, which is only slightly lighter and sold in very large numbers. Both lenses could have used a rotating tripod mount. The smooth operation of a Nikon F, compared to the long throw of the Visoflex III release arm, makes all the difference in the world for handholding. Of course the Nikon also has an automatic diaphram. The lens you bought is certainly not THE, but ONE prototype, since the one I illustrate hereunder and which belong to the late Ghester Sartorius, is serialled 8588798 and has either NO manufacturer name engraved. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/110315-the-tele-elmarit-28180-one-of-the-very-few/?do=findComment&comment=1671337'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 13, 2011 Share #17 Posted May 13, 2011 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted May 14, 2011 Share #18 Posted May 14, 2011 I have no idea how many were made with Schneider serial numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 14, 2011 Share #19 Posted May 14, 2011 I wonder... Schneider, at that times, did produce "universal" lenses for SLR... they were times in which Germany was still resisting to Japan's attack... and the market still abounded of brands like Exakta, Regula, Edixa... does anyone know if around that times, Schneider had a 180 2,8 for SLR in its listing ? I find someway strange they designed and built such a rather costly lens only for Leitz' small order... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2014 Share #20 Posted February 25, 2014 Has anyone already used the Tele-Elmarit 2.8-180mm on M-240? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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