How much precision can I expect from the M7 frames

[herbet]

Hi guys,
being used to be really precise with framing my pictures and having shot mostly with SLRs I'm finding the framing on my M7 a little inconsistent, i.e I get more in the final picture than what I had within the frames. what is the expected accuracy of these rangefinders. I'm wondering if my M7 needs to be adjusted.
cheers.

[H. James Wolf]

I've used Ms from the M3 on and now use M7s as well as M6ttls. The framing has always been approximate and is even more of an issue if you wear glasses as I do. Fortunately, getting more than you expected in the frame isn't as much of a problem as expecting something to be in the frame and finding it wasn't only after you process the film.

[bill]

Generally, the frames on the M7 should cover a little more than you get on film. I vaguely remember (although I don't have it to hand) that the framelines are so designed to allow for the slight trimming that occurs when you mount a slide.

What I would say is that the trimming should be consistent and even, and therefore easy to compensate for with a little experience.

As a matter of interest, which magnification viewfinder are you using?

Regards,

Bill

[herbet]

it's a standard .72 viewfinder

[budrichard]

M3, M6, M7 and Nikon user. I have never found any problems with accurate framing on any M camera I have. Suggest that you find a rectangular object with the 35mm proportions and take some pictures writing down for each shot exactly how it was framed and then reviewing your pictures.
BTW, more is good, less in bad. For truly accurate framing you will need an SLR with a grid type of finder screen.-Dick

[rob_x2004]

No, they are precise. They will be in exactly the same place each time.
What you have to get your head about and learn is the rangefinder to lens parallax between the coverage at the point of focus and the coverage at infinity, or your background.
Notice the viewfinder frames swing and depress as you focus? That is to keep the frameline as "accurate" as possible the distance of the point of focus.
But the lens doesnt swing. When focused you are no longer seeing the location of the corners of the background or infinity, and given you are often framing your subject with respect to the background, trees, horizon, the telegraph pole growing out of a head, that is something you have to learn.
Leica have to make decisions o nhe location and how much move a frameline as a lens is focused. They have to balance a number of needs, and different closest focusing points of different but same focal length lenses...eg, 75Lux, 75Cron, 75Summarit.
On blance they do a very good job.
It is something that is very easy to learn. But then a lot of people blame a hammer for bending nails.

[brianv]

The size of the framelines stays constant with distance, the magnification of the lens changes slightly as you focus closer. Very few rangefinder type cameras adjust the size and position of the frame to correct for parallax and coverage. The Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss finder and Konica S2 are two cameras that incorporate this feature. It is a marginal difference, at best.

All I have to do for 100% framing on my M3 is put a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5 on it and use the interior of the 90mm framelines.

[bill]

Originally Posted by brianv

The size of the framelines stays constant with distance, the magnification of the lens changes slightly as you focus closer. Very few rangefinder type cameras adjust the size and position of the frame to correct for parallax and coverage. The Polaroid 180 with the Zeiss finder and Konica S2 are two cameras that incorporate this feature. It is a marginal difference, at best.

All I have to do for 100% framing on my M3 is put a Nikkor 10.5cm F2.5 on it and use the interior of the 90mm framelines.

The M7 framelines have parallax correction.

Regards,

Bill

[Dan States]

Your problem is not parallax. M7 and pretty much all M's only show about 85% of the actual frame at infinity. At closest distance they are pretty close to actual frame size.

This is one of the reasons I still love my old Leica III. The 50mm frame is pretty close to 100% of the actual frame and I find it much easier to compose accurately.

Best wishes
Dan

[rob_x2004]

Overly simplistically

Leica has to decide frameline size, location and now much a frame line will move in parallax adjustment as you focus on the subject.
Frameline sizes dont change, but there is an angle of view, which is different to the lens.
Where you think the subject is against the background is not what the lens sees. Difference can be huge.
Most people dont seem to get their heads round the following.

.....p1j.jpg

[brianv]

The M7 framelines have parallax correct, as do the other Leica M's.

But the frame size as shown in the viewfinder remains constant as you focus. On the Konica S2 and Polaroid 180, the size of the frame also changes to reflect the actual field-of-view of the taking lens at the respective distance.

[jimmy pro]

Originally Posted by Dan States

Your problem is not parallax. M7 and pretty much all M's only show about 85% of the actual frame at infinity. At closest distance they are pretty close to actual frame size.

This is one of the reasons I still love my old Leica III. The 50mm frame is pretty close to 100% of the actual frame and I find it much easier to compose accurately.

Best wishes
Dan

It's 100% at infinity, which means it's prolly 120% at 1m, not to mention there's no parralax correction. The screwmounts suck at close up unless you crop loose and mentally shift the image center down and right. Except cameras where the framelines change size, with any other rangefinder camera you hafta use your noggin.

[herbet]

thanks for the replies and for sharing the knowledge guys.