M7 or MP or M8

[jimleicam3]

I have been using an M3 and Canon 20d, I love the M3! I have been thinking of moving up to an M8, however, with all the minor/major problems that I have been reading about. I am very nervous about buying a M8 right now. So I have been looking at the M7 and the MP. These two cameras seems very similar except for the aperture priority mode on the M7. It seems that both cameras are "true manual cameras" with the MP being slightly more manual. I do like more street photos, almost no studio work. I then have the concern that I am out of my mind to think of buying a new film camera in 2008, should I just wait until the M 8 has most of its problems ironed out? Thanks, Jim

[thomasw_]

I love my MP; there's a long time thread here on that very theme. Very functional for your stated uses. The MP is all about the rewards of deliberate, careful and perspicacious shooting. No auto-anything....making you very self-reliant.

[mcd]

If you are interested in shooting street photography when your subject is fleeting, get an m7. The aperture preferred auto is a great feature, and you still have manual. Unless you are processing your own film, the cost is going to grow very quickly. The M8 has some flaws, but it makes fantastic images that are free after you buy the camera. If you are looking for a contemplative relaxed approach to traditional photography - an mp or m6 will make you very happy...

But you already knew that.

[austin]

I have an M6. I plan on keeping it, and later I will buy an M8. Here are the considerations which matter to me.

One film Leica is enough. I love film; I still love it more than digital.

***Most of all, film photography works better than anything else for the "decisive moment" of photography, right up through the moment the shutter is released.

***After the shutter is released, film is more trouble than digital, to process, to transmit, to reproduce.

The thing is, nearly everything I want to do after the picture is taken, is something digital.

If I want to stay with film, I must invest US$1,000+ for a scanner worthy of the negative, e.g, Nikon Coolscan, plus the continuing expense of $10-$15 per roll of film+processing. And I am told that most scanners do not like silver-halide black-and-white film, so I'll probably say goodbye to XXX and hello to C-41 "chromogenic" black-and-white (and probably Kodak rather than Ilford XP2, since scanners do not like black-and-white film without an orange mask).

I will probably do this while I save up for an M8.

My main concern with the M8 is this: I like the look of pictures taken with my M6 and my 35mm Summilux ASPH. On an M6, a 35mm lens is a wide-angle lens.

On the M8, my 35mm lens becomes, functionally, a 'normal' lens (as a 50mm would be on an M6). So if I want to make wide-angle pictures with the look I like, I shall have to get a suitable 28mm or 21mm lens ... to make images with the wide-angle look.

So, I'll keep my M6 and keep the 35 Summilux on it.

Eventually I'll get an M8 with some nice 21mm/28mm lens, three batteries, and a fistful of SD cards.

Hope these thoughts help --

A U S T I N ,

Flickr: Austin Burbridge's Photostream

[dpattinson]

If I were buying a 'modern' film leica right now, then I'd almost certainly choose a used M6 (I already have a M7 - so for me that question is moot). The fact that you're considering the MP means you think you can do without auto-exposure, and your use of a M3 proves you can handle that lack. If you intend to buy an M8/9 later on - then the M6 will cost a heck of a lot less as a stopgap in the meantime.
In any case - there really is very little practical reason to be buying a 'new' leica film camera right now, used ones will be fine and will save you quite a bit of cash.

(a bit of heresy - you should also take a look at the hexar rf. It's less than half the price of a M7, has 2 stops faster shutter (think Tri-x at f2), and auto exposure with a 'getting used to the M8' autowind into the bargain).

[Iron Flatline]

All three are spectacular cameras, what ought to define your decision is your work-flow. If you're used to working in digital, the addition of film back into your life may (or may not) be an issue.

Another issue to consider is cost. If you already have a good computer and an image editing software, then it really is a question of comparing camera acquisition cost vs. regular shooting cost. A digital camera is more expensive, but film cost, and development expenses, add up quickly.

If you travel, you will either be carrying around a lot of film, or batteries with a charger.

Regardless, this is a good problem to have, and I'm sure you'll make a good decision.

[stunsworth]

Personally I'd go for the M7. AE, a more accurate shutter - if that's important, probably not, on a more practical level I prefer the rewind crank to that of the MP/M2/M3.

The Konica Hexar RF was a decent camera, though when I owned one I only ever used it if I was using a second camera with my M6. There was something missing, though I could never pin down what it was. What _is_ missing is any kind of support from the manufacturer. The camera is no longer made, and as far as I'm aware currently has no support whatsoever from the current owners of the brand Sony. So if it needs a repair you're on your own.

Don't right off the M8.

What ever you choose you'll have an excellent camera that should be a joy to use.

[wstotler]

Originally Posted by austin

I have an M6. I plan on keeping it, and later I will buy an M8. Here are the considerations which matter to me.

Originally Posted by dpattinson

If I were buying a 'modern' film leica right now, then I'd almost certainly choose a used M6. The fact that you're considering the MP means you think you can do without auto-exposure, and your use of a M3 proves you can handle that lack. If you intend to buy an M8/9 later on - then the M6 will cost a heck of a lot less as a stopgap in the meantime.

Jim: Ditto on the used M6 as a good "stopgap" option. I picked up a "used" M6TTL (instead of an MP or M7) to be a "backup" for my M8 and haven't regretted it. Very affordable used (by Leica pricing standards) and a joy to use. Of note, the direction of turn for the speed dial and the >*< LEDs in the viewfinder are the same as on the M8, which helps when switching back and forth between the two. Thanks, Will.

[pcsmythe]

I have both an M6 TTL and M7. I prefer the M7 because of the auto-exposure mode. One thing to think about an M6 is that you may need to upgrade the viewfinder. The upgrade is approximately $300.00.

[abrewer]

If you're into quick-moving stuff like street photography you should go with the M7

That aperture-priority is a life-saver; you couldn't possibly set exposure, focus and get the shot in changing conditions like you encounter in street shots with an MP

If you're shooting under less fast-moving conditions (like most of what I do despite the race cars) the MP is very, very satisfying to use

I shoot my Canon digital stuff when I have to turn something around quickly for the web or someone asks me to do a project for them

I love Leica, but the M8 is a flawed product; and I'll wait for an M9 before I even consider one

Thanks

Allan

[jimmy pro]

Originally Posted by jimleicam3

I have been using an M3 and Canon 20d, I love the M3! I have been thinking of moving up to an M8, however, with all the minor/major problems that I have been reading about. I am very nervous about buying a M8 right now. So I have been looking at the M7 and the MP. These two cameras seems very similar except for the aperture priority mode on the M7. It seems that both cameras are "true manual cameras" with the MP being slightly more manual. I do like more street photos, almost no studio work. I then have the concern that I am out of my mind to think of buying a new film camera in 2008, should I just wait until the M 8 has most of its problems ironed out? Thanks, Jim

What's the M3 and 20d not doing for you that makes you think you need to "move up" to anything? The only reason I went from an M3 to another M was to get the 35 and 28mm framelines in the finder. I had an M7 but after 3 tries and Leica-USA couldn't fix what ailed it when I finally got it fixed I sold it and bought an M6. I never considered the MP as to me it's made for collectors, basicly an M6 with a slow, ackward rewind. The anti-flair finder upgrade for the M6 costed me under $200 from DAG, so the total outlay was still a grand south of a MP. As for the M8 it's a lot of money and as such, when something goes wrong and it's off in repair for 2 months while its depretiating and your making creditcard payments on it your prolly gonna be pretty pissed off. If you can sluff that off with a laugh and keep similing then your safe to get one. When it works it's a great camera. But the main thing is, is your current equiptment not doing something important, or are you just infected with the urge to get something new. Nothing wrong either way but you should check what used M8's are going for on fleabay compared to what you pay for a new one, just so you understand how much it could cost you if you bail.

[jimleicam3]

Right now I only have a cron 50 mm for my M3, I would love to try a 35 mm, what kind of problems might I have using a wider lens without the framelines? Thanks

[earleygallery]

As someone who - still - prefers film I would ask why do you need digital?

When you refer to 'moving up' do you mean from the M3 or the D20?

If there is a need, or you simply prefer digital then fine, and the M8 is the obvious choice. Assuming you keep the D20 you have a digital solution already, but again, if you want the M3 kind of experience in digital form.............

I can see the advantages of an M7 but if buying new, I think I would be inclined to buy an MP - basically the same camera bar the viewfinder, as your M3. I have an M2 which is perfectly fine. Buy an MP and you have a camera for life (don't worry about being able to buy film!!!).

Someone was looking at my M2 when I was shooting with it last weekend. They couldn't beleive it when I told them that yes, it was an old camera, but you could buy pretty much the same camera now brand new, for £2K! I'm not sure if they were more surprised by the cost or the fact that you CAN still buy film cameras

In fact, what you really need to do is buy and MP and an M8.

[leicagator]

For myself, I have decided that I want a "new" rangefinder: Thus I am also arguing back and forth between the M7 and the MP. I therefore can understand your difficult situation.

On the one hand the MP is the camera for the "heart", whereas on the other hand the M7 is the reasonable camera for me. One day I decide to go for the MP, another day I go for the M7 ....

Probably, given the large amount of money, I will end up with the M7 as the reasonable choice ... or maybe the M8 nonetheless?

Questions, choices ....

[jimleicam3]

That's the great question. I already have the digital workflow( Mac Pro, photoshop, Aperture 2.0). The reason for upgrading from the 20D. is because of size, Size does matter! Once I started using the M3, I was like, what the devil am I doing carring around this giant dSLR, with 3-4 lenses, when I can use this small M3 with a short, light lens, keep it under a coat, and save my neck from strain, and get great photos? However, the current problem is that in my area only one shop will do B&W film and put it on a disc. And after using a digital card and downloading photos, using film is like going back to my OM-1. So that is where the idea of moving up to the M8 came from. But after reading the M8 forum, if I spend $5500 usd on an M8 and have to keep sending it back, even once, I don't think I'll be too happy. So maybe I'll just get a 35 mm lens and see how it works on my M3, and wait until the M8-II is on the market.

[mongrelnomad]

I have all three (and a little MP-3 which isn't really relevant, but hey). Out of all of them, the first to fall would be the M8. I think that digital is really the future of photography, but for the M-series, the future isn't there yet. Mine's been beset with problems, but my biggest and most unforgiveable gripe is that I cannot use my beloved lenses as they were intended.

So: M7 or MP. The answer to this is "it depends". I love them both dearly, and in many ways they're very similar. The MP feels marginally better balanced due to less height, and its construction feels a good 20% better (if you'll allow me the luxury of a numerical approximation). I never really use the AE on the M7 - the job of adding shutter-speed to aperture and focus is hardly a chore, and the manual metering far more accurate. However, I have grabbed a few shots with the AE that I would never have been able to with the MP and exposure compensation on the M7 can often come in useful...

Other than that, I think the shutter-speed dial is the final issue. If you're used to shooting with an M3, it may be a good idea to stick with the MP as if you're shifting between the two, you may find yourself getting increasingly confused with an M7...

So I guess that's it. Either of them would be a great choice but...

...through a process of eliminiation: get an MP.

[PATB]

If you don't process your own film, get the M8 and remove the scanning portion of the workflow.

I bought an MP last year thinking I can get "develop only" and scan. Well, that only lasted a while. The cost of developing adds up and I find scanning a pain. The post processing of scanning, to me, is more work than RAW processing of digital files from my dSLR.

I stick with film because I was able to take black and white classes at a local community college. I now moved on to the point I can process at home and print on fiber paper in the school darkroom. I love it! Printing in the darkroom is so relaxing, especially when working in front of a computer all day for a living. I also meet experienced black and white photographers and learn the craft from them on a regular basis. Besides the school, there is another community darkroom in my area. If I no longer have access to a darkroom, I would probably get the M8 or whatever is available then.

[jplomley]

How big do you plan to print? For film work, I use a Mamiya 7 (street) and Arca Swiss 4x5 (landscape). I had an M6TTL, but after using the Mamiya abandoned the 35mm film format altogether....until I tried an M8. I would say the M8 is more like 6x4.5 film, and therein can handle 16x24 enlargements without difficulty and i would go so far as to say 20x30 with good processing and printing skills. Let your endpoint help guide your decision. If you are insistent on film, I would seriously urge you to try a Mamiya 7 and 65mm lens combo before dropping 3.5K on a Leica lens for 35mm film. For the M8 sensor, the cost may be justified, but for 35mm film, I'm not convinced (unless you are drum scanning and therefore are able to draw out every bit of information contained in that emulsion)

[zernikepolynom]

I'm using a M3 as well as a M8.

The M3 is simply emotional, a perfectly balanced and proportinoned fine mechanics tool. In direct comparision, the M8 seems to have a touch of clumsiness - compare a micrometre calliper to an industrial quality tool for the different feeling. It took some weeks to 'like' the M8, but after some time it 'grows' to one's hands. It is an excellent tool I wouldn't like to miss. But I wouldn't take it out of it's box just to listen to the shutter. Maybe in 10 years?

Financially - one can expose quite some rolls of film before bridgeing the price gap between a film M and a M8. I got the M8 for the digital workflow (Capture One is my favourite image processing program now) and the option of getting large high quality prints.

Summing up - I'm using the M8 as a 'working horse' and the M3 for the emotional aspect.

[zernikepolynom]

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