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Why is Fuji Pro 400H film priced 40% higher than Portra 400??


A miller

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There is a similar price difference in Australia and it has been that way for a while. As they are from different companies, we can assume a likely difference in wholesale price and/or recommended retail. Fuji Pro400H and film in general is becoming ludicrously expensive in Australia, and I'm considering a bulk buy from B&H at some stage.

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Thanks for your comment.

I feel your pain regarding the price of film. I live in NYC and, if you know anyone who is visiting here from Australia, I'd be happy to make a run to B&H and help facilitate a bulk purchase of film to send back with your friend.

 

Dear Moderator - I think this thread is more appropriately placed in the "Film" forum. apologies and please feel free to move it there.

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Here are some possible reasons:

 

- Kodak produces a much higher volume of color-neg stock, since they are still in the motion picture business. (Which is still equal to an extra 81,000,000 36-exposure rolls per year, even though declining). As well as having a broader still-photo pro color-neg range (P160, P800, Ektar 100). This means their machines can run more efficiently.

 

(Both Kodak and Fuji are still in the drugstore consumer color-neg market, but that is likely dwarfed by the motion picture volume, for the time being.)

 

- Fuji ultimately earns in yen, and yen have been historically very expensive over the past 5 years (a dollar US bought only 75 of them in 2011-mid2013, whereas 5 years before that, it bought 130). That tide has turned again (yen is back to around 117 to the dollar), but film on the shelves today likely was contracted for by US/OZ distributors when the yen was still pricey.

 

Given that Fuji slide films are also going up in price with every shipment, the yen value is probably the dominant factor.

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Thanks, Andy. Very interesting. I was thinking there may be a qualitative difference betwen the two that I am ignorant of.

 

As for your second point about the fx rate, I suppose that could apply to lots of situations (toyota vs GM, apple vs sony, etc). It's very hard to tell given the complexity of the balance sheets of global enterprises.

 

Your first point is interesting in the sense that it would seem to reflect a kind of market inefficiency that is somewhat unusual, namely, that a company can survive from a profitability perspective (which is an assumption) selling a product for 40% more than a product of a similar quality level to a direct competitor.

 

Perhaps the answer is that it is a false premise to say that portra is a direct competitor given the very different rendering that the film gives. I suppose a more accurate analogy would be to a non-Fuji film that has that saturated fuji look. Perhaps nothing like exists anymore, hence the current state of play with the prices....

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There used to be so many different color negative films from Kodak and Fuji. e.g., Fuji 160 Pro C and Fuji 160 Pro NS, and Kodak Portra 160 NC and Kodak Portra 160 VC, etc., directly competing with each other, and with Kodak accusing Fuji of unfair trade practices and price fixing (Fuji film was a lot cheaper and creating problems for Kodak's profitability.)

 

From a case study (The Kodak - Fuji Rivalry |Business Strategy Case Studies|Business Strategy Articles)

"The company claimed that this had cost Kodak $5.6 billion in lost revenues during the period 1985-95. In May 1995, the rivalry between Kodak and Fuji intensified when Kodak filed a petition under section 301 stating that its poor performance in the Japanese market was a direct result of unfair practices adopted by Fuji. Kodak alleged Fuji of price fixing in trade associations, bribing retailers and wholesalers so that they do not sell film produced by other competitors.

 

However, some analysts felt that the reason for Kodak's failure in Japan was due to the significant difference between the distribution networks in Japanese and the US markets. In the US, film manufacturers sold directly to retailers and photofinishers whereas in Japan, distributors mediated between the two parties (the manufacturers and the retailers/wholesalers.)"

 

My personal favorite color negative film from Kodak was Pro 100 (PRN) That was an exceptional film, imho. http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/e182/e182.pdf

 

Although in a way, life is easier with less (but excellent) emulsions to choose from.... kinda of like sticking to only one or two lenses and just making the best of what you've got. :)

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Thanks to all for your thoughts and comments. This is all very interesting.

There seem to be a few forces at work. While there most certainly has been a gigantic drop off in film sales in the last 15 years, my understanding is that, over the past few years, the drop off has slowed down, and film sales have started to increase again. While the demand will never be the same, it very well may increase to a critical mass that will make production of film once again a profitable business. It may not be so for large conglomerates such as Fuji, which needs to rationalize its various lines of business. This may leave the production to smaller companies (Kodak and Ilford may be exceptions to this). But there are many other film companies out there that are starting to creep into the scene, some of which, such as CineStill, are a rebranding of a film made by well known companies.

 

This all makes me want to start trying out other lesser known films. One outside of the box idea is a color negative film with a purple hue that is made by Lomogrpahy:

 

Lomography LomoChrome Purple XR 100-400 35mm Color F436LC1 B&H

 

Crazy concept, but could be cool to try...

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It should be noted that Kodak's film division was profitable all along (except for 1 quarter about 2-3 years ago). The problem was that it was not profitable ENOUGH to cover:

 

a) the losses from other divisions, notably the start-up costs of the "commercial inkjet" operation that is now their core business.

 

B) the legacy pension liabilities from when they were a huge multinational - Kodak ultimately handed over the film division (and its profits) to their UK employees pension fund to settle the liabilities and raise some cash.

 

Kodak to Sell Its Camera Film and Imaging Businesses in $2.8 Billion Deal

 

As a follow-up to CalArts comment - in college, I had a pretty limited palette of color neg films to choose from - Kodacolor-X (Kodacolor II after the change to C-41 chemistry), or Vericolor VPS. Kodacolor 400 came along in grad school. For slides there was Kodachrome II/25, and eventually Ektachrome 400.

 

I never felt handicapped by the limited range - after all, everyone from the Pulitzer winners to Nat. Geo was making great pictures using the exact same stuff.

 

It doesn't pay to get too precious about materials - as one of Danny Lyons' teachers told him, "Color pictures are what you get when you put color film in the camera."

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On a semi-related note, it disappoints me that Fuji is moving away from film.

 

As recently as 2006, Fuji had the Natura camera range, including the Natura Black, Natura S, and Classica. The Natura Black has a 24mm f1.9 lens and was marketed as kind of a social camera to be used with friends in low light conditions. The S was an offshoot and came in pink and white, to appeal to women. The Classica was a 28/2.8 camera with a zoom lens.

 

All Natura cameras employed what Fuji called 'NP Mode', for 'natural photos'. The Black and S cameras started NP mode at ISO 1600, and the Classica activated it at ISO 800. This mode turned off flash, opened the aperture to its widest regardless of the lighting situation, and used relatively slow shutter speeds. When used with the accompanying Fuji Natura 1600 film, these cameras were intended to take natural, flash free photos in dimly lit situations.

 

(As an parenthesis: I used to hack the DX code on 400 speed film to activate NP mode in my Natura Black. The resulting photos had a slightly dreamy, slightly overexposed but saturated look that I enjoyed. It also turned off flash by default, which was could not be done with the Natura Black otherwise.)

 

They also created the Klasse high end fixed lens compacts, which included the Klasse S (38/2.8) and W (28/2.8). The equivalents would be the Contax T2 and Ricoh GR1v, respectively. These Fuji cameras also had NP mode, I believe.

 

But since then, Fuji has stopped production of all of these cameras. First the Natura Black, which I have and love. The Natura S cameras were axed about the same time, maybe earlier. The Classica stayed for a few more years, and the Klasse S and W were discontinued in the last few years. I am not aware of Fuji making any film cameras other than the Instax at this time.

 

If Bellamy of Japan Camera Hunter is right, then Fuji will exit the film game within the earlier part of a decade. I actually enjoy using Fuji film, even the cheap and cheerful XTRA 400, which was my main film for a while. You can't even buy the eight-roll packs of XTRA 400 any more, only three roll packs at the most. They no longer make motion picture film, and they seem to be slowly but surely axing the whole film line.

 

If we want this to stop, we can send them a message by buying more Fuji film. Otherwise it will go the way of the rest of their film cameras.

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The Natura Black has a 24mm f1.9 lens and was marketed as kind of a social camera to be used with friends in low light conditions.....

 

I am not aware of Fuji making any film cameras other than the Instax at this time.

 

.

 

The Instax is the new trending social camera, Fuji are ramping up production massively. I still can't see any reason yet to declare Fuji out of the film market, what has hurt them for a long time is the exchange rate when applied to film (in the UK it has always been more expensive than Kodak) unlike Japanese car manufacturers such as Nissan, Toyota or Honda who make cars in the UK (and in many other countries around the world), so they are dealing with local economies and no exchange rates.

 

Steve

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