A miller Posted October 23, 2014 Share #1 Posted October 23, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) What more does one need to do to effectively push B&W film (like Winogrand, et al, did so successfully) to 1200-1600 other than by simply exposing for this ISO rating and then telling the lab to develop at this rating? I feel that more is required as my attempts have produced results that have too much contrast and grain. I suspect that some will say that i should develop myself and take care in agitating very gently. If need be i can go this route but i have a feeling that i am missing some other ticks. Thanks in advance to all the experts. Best, Adam Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 23, 2014 Posted October 23, 2014 Hi A miller, Take a look here Pushing film. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
KAD Posted October 23, 2014 Share #2 Posted October 23, 2014 I am one of those who would recomend to try to develop yourself I have used stand development with Rodinal a couple of times. Pushing 2-3 stops is rather easy. I recomend this article that will explain better than me Workflow Tutorial #2: Stand Development with Rodinal | J B Hildebrand Photography 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted October 23, 2014 Share #3 Posted October 23, 2014 You don’t say which film you want to push. If you are thinking of say Tri-X, you are proposing to under expose by 2-3 stops. If you have a lab that will accommodate you, they will likely just develop longer. I strongly suspect that the result will be negatives that are thin-ish and quite contrasty. If that is what you want… Better, in my opinion, to use a film of higher intrinsic ASA. There are a couple of 3200 ASA films around, and they are engineered to provide good full toned and sharp negatives of normal contrast with 3 stops less exposure than (say) Tri-x. You will get better results – at least in the conventional sense. Generally, use the equipment and materials roughly the way the manufacturer designed them to be used, would be (is) my advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted October 23, 2014 Thank you KAD and Michael. Unbelievably helpful. Michael - i am asking mosly in the context of tri x I find the delta 3200 too grainy for everyday street work, and use it mostly in special situations. Best, Adam 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 24, 2014 Share #5 Posted October 24, 2014 I suspect that some will say that i should develop myself and take care in agitating very gently. If need be i can go this route but i have a feeling that i am missing some other ticks. Developing at home is really where all the tricks are, given you can pick and choose the best developer and the best technique for pushing the particular type film you like to use. Personally I would choose Diafine or Ilford DD-X, each has it's own characteristics but both are easy to work with. Steve 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share #6 Posted October 24, 2014 Many thanks, Steve. The standing dev process has intruiged me and I think I will give it a try. One question I have, though, is whether the results deminish the more the film is pushed. In my small head it would seem to be the case, otherwise it would seem that exposure is completely irrelevant. Is a push of tri x 400 two stops pushing upon any boundaries in this regard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD Posted October 24, 2014 Share #7 Posted October 24, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have used mainly Tri-X so far, but tried out FP4 the last time I pushed film. Used Rodinal (the version from Adox) as previusly with semi stand for one hour, dilluted 1:100. The film was exposed to ISO 400, which is two steps, and the files looked very good I think. Last picture are FP4 pushed two stops, first picture is Tri-X pushed two stops. For the Tri-X picture it was also part of a role with film that was expsed for ISO400-1600, but devloped as one film! To be able to change ISO during a film , is maybe one of the main advantages I see with stand development. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 5 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/235960-pushing-film/?do=findComment&comment=2694304'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share #8 Posted October 24, 2014 KAD - this is awesomely helpful. Would you by any chance have a shot handy from the same tri x roll that was exposed at 1600 that you can share?? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD Posted October 24, 2014 Share #9 Posted October 24, 2014 This picture is from the same role... ISO1600. Not a photographic masterpiece, but I was testing to change ISO on the same roll of film. To ME it seems like pushing Tri-X gives less grain than some original high ISO film. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/235960-pushing-film/?do=findComment&comment=2694406'>More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share #10 Posted October 24, 2014 KAD - thank you very much for sharing this photo. I love it! The highlights look slightly more pronounced compared to the ISO 400 example, which, to me, is very lovely. It is also impressive to see the shadow detail in the animal figure in the foreground. Very cute boy, and very nice moment captured. Sometimes, it is the simple ones that in the long run are the best. Thanks again for the time and advice. I'm headed to B&H this weekend for some Adonol and will post some newbie results soon. Best, Adam 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD Posted October 24, 2014 Share #11 Posted October 24, 2014 Thank you A Miller! To me the candid photos when you capture just a look or some smal gestures are what I look for, so I like this one as well Just to give you the details: I use a Paterson tank made for two rolles, but develop only one a time. I use 4ml Rodinal with 400ml water, at max 20C. Colder is better, but I try to stick within 5C of temperature on my fix, which is stored at 20C. 30 sec of slow agitation at start, then sit for 30 min (tap tank when put down to remove air) 5 SLOW agitation after 30 min, then sit for another 30 min. Use normal water for stop, 1 min agitation, then 5 min with Ilford Fixer, 5 agitation every minute. Then 10 minutes of rinsing using normal tap water. Hang to dry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share #12 Posted October 24, 2014 Thanks a lot for your recipe. I will give it a try. Do you use water to stop b/c a proper stob solution is not necesaary, or b/c it would be harmful to the process? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD Posted October 24, 2014 Share #13 Posted October 24, 2014 Stop solution seems not to be necessary, so I just use water. The THEORY is that by using approx 3-5ml with Rodinal per film, you will use everything to develop the film, hence the solution is not able to develop anything more. Using water to stop is mainly to "protect" your fix solution to be polluted. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share #14 Posted October 24, 2014 Got it. Thanks again for all of your help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 24, 2014 Share #15 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) This is not a 'get out of jail free' card. All you are doing is compensating for varying amounts of under exposure (in altering the ISO) by allowing the developer to exhaust itself. But it does it in different ways per frame. Which introduces varying degrees of tone, grain, and contrast into the equation, none of which you can control. If however you decide on a set film speed for the whole roll all your pictures will come out the same in terms of grain and tone and contrast, so you can then tweak time/temperature/technique to suit what you want. You have to accept Rodinal and variable exposure with stand development is a hit and miss way to go about developing a film, particularly as long stand development with Rodinal can introduced streaking that faster working compensating developers won't do for the same result of allowing exposure leeway. While I love the pictures posted, they are yet again part of the cult of Rodinal as a wonder developer, which it most definitely isn't. Used as a stand developer it simply provides a wide variety of (adequately developed) exposures on one roll of variable exposures, but there is no way to guarantee the result that you specifically want. Steve Edited October 24, 2014 by 250swb 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAD Posted October 24, 2014 Share #16 Posted October 24, 2014 (edited) I do very much agree with you 250swb, and will not try to convince anyone in believing this is magic! I am pretty new to developing ( had a 20 year brake ), but to ME Ridinal and stand devolopment seems to have some advantages: It seems like a robust process, as it will not be to sensitive to time and temp You will have opportunity to exploit the natural leverage in the film and get result with different exposure/ISO It seems to provide less grain on high ISO It slows you down, and make the whole proces quit relaxing BTW I have not experienced streaking, but that might be just luck...? Edited October 24, 2014 by KAD Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
osscat Posted October 24, 2014 Share #17 Posted October 24, 2014 You should know this one Steve from my early photos using Rodinal and TriX rated 1600 asa. It come up well innit? Osscat Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/235960-pushing-film/?do=findComment&comment=2694599'>More sharing options...
leicaphilia Posted October 25, 2014 Share #18 Posted October 25, 2014 (edited) This picture is from the same role... ISO1600. Not a photographic masterpiece, but I was testing to change ISO on the same roll of film. To ME it seems like pushing Tri-X gives less grain than some original high ISO film. Actually, its a wonderful picture. And I agree with a previous poster: Tri-X pushed is often less grainy than high ISO films at box speed. Tri-X is pretty amzing stuff. As for developing Tri-X @ 1600, D-76 works well. I do agree with others that stand development is not without its drawbacks. Lack of proper agitation can often result in unevenly developed negatives. Most times, not a problem. some times it is. the problem is you can never tell, so if you're developing film that is important to you, you always run the risk. If you want CONSISTENT, PREDICTABLE results, find a developer/film push combination that works for you and stick to it. DDX as mentioned is a good push developer, but its expensive. Less expensive is Microphen, which gives a really classic look to Tri-X pushed. Or, XTol, which is cheap, predictible and very good for pushing Tri-X. Good luck. Remember, half the fun of developing film is finding out what different developer/film combinations work for you. Edited October 25, 2014 by leicaphilia 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share #19 Posted October 25, 2014 Very interesting responses. Steve - points well taken, thanks. Can DDX be used for stand development? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaphilia Posted October 25, 2014 Share #20 Posted October 25, 2014 Very interesting responses. Steve - points well taken, thanks. Can DDX be used for stand development? Stand seems to be a Rodinal thing. I'm not aware of anyone who has used stand development with DDX. IMO, better to push your film to a given ISO and develop it for that rated speed with a recommended time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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