Edwin Ho Posted June 24, 2014 Share #1 Posted June 24, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I scanned my first black and white negs via VueScan. To my surprise, the darker parts of the image is brown instead of black. Is this normal or are there special settings for black and white negatives? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Hi Edwin Ho, Take a look here Scanning Black and White Negs. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Stealth3kpl Posted June 24, 2014 Share #2 Posted June 24, 2014 I've been setting up Vuescan to scan "B+W negative" and output as a dng to adjust in camera raw. Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsgary Posted June 24, 2014 Share #3 Posted June 24, 2014 Was it XP2 film ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Ho Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share #4 Posted June 25, 2014 I've been setting up Vuescan to scan "B+W negative" and output as a dng to adjust in camera raw.Pete Same too but sent it to LR for editing... but don't seem to get rid of brown tint. I may have to improve my LR skills. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Ho Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share #5 Posted June 25, 2014 Was it XP2 film ? Kodak Tri X 400. BTW my screen was calibrated using Spyder 4 Express. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 25, 2014 Share #6 Posted June 25, 2014 Under the 'Output' tab and in the 'TIFF type' options set the output to 16 bit TIFF Grey. Then reconvert it to RGB when in Lightroom. You will then have the best file format to work on. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted June 25, 2014 Share #7 Posted June 25, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) If the image is in black and white mode, there will be no color if the monitor is calibrated correctly. If LR will not allow conversion B&W mode, set the scanner to that mode. LR is really the raw converter portion of photoshop which does have the ability to change modes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 25, 2014 Share #8 Posted June 25, 2014 If the image is in black and white mode, there will be no color if the monitor is calibrated correctly. . This is a question about scanning, and if a traditional monochrome negative is scanned as a colour negative, and there are good reasons to do that, then the image will have some sort of tint simply because the film base is never totally clear and neutral in colour. The solution isn't to calibrate the monitor. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 25, 2014 Share #9 Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) I have tried and tried, but have never found any advantage to scanning a black and white negative as a colour negative. Saving it as an RGB file gives more options in Photoshop, but I always only scan as a 16bit greyscale file. Edited June 25, 2014 by andybarton 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted June 25, 2014 Share #10 Posted June 25, 2014 I have tried and tried, but have never found any advantage to scanning a black and white negative as a colour negative. I have done so for three reasons: One of my scanners did not offer scanning a B/W image at a reasonable color depth. Some of the negatives were dirty and/or damaged. The dirt was not equally visible in each color channel. So I scanned in color and discarded two channels. One scanner had what appeared to be convergence problems. The three composites did not quite occupy the same place. Discarding two of three channels considerably enhanced the sharpness. As you can see, two of the reasons had to do with the quality of the scanning device. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth3kpl Posted June 26, 2014 Share #11 Posted June 26, 2014 (edited) For my purposes, I can't tell the difference between scanning greyscale or as rgb. Most of my scanning has been the latter. However, I can see from internet forums, the green channel of scanners is often the sharper of the 3 rgb channels so I can accept that some will appreciate a difference. Pete Edited June 26, 2014 by Stealth3kpl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 26, 2014 Share #12 Posted June 26, 2014 However, I can see from internet forums, the green channel of scanners is often the sharper of the 3 rgb channels so I can accept that some will appreciate a difference. Pete The notes for Vuescan say that when scanning in b&w mode it mainly uses the green channel. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Ho Posted June 26, 2014 Author Share #13 Posted June 26, 2014 Under the 'Output' tab and in the 'TIFF type' options set the output to 16 bit TIFF Grey. Then reconvert it to RGB when in Lightroom. You will then have the best file format to work on. Steve Steve, thank you for confirming this. I went searching for a solution in various sites and I realised that that my Tiff file type was set at 48 bit RGB instead of 16 bit Grey. I have sinced rescanned the negs and they looked so much more acceptable. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/229423-scanning-black-and-white-negs/?do=findComment&comment=2618379'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 26, 2014 Share #14 Posted June 26, 2014 But don't forget to convert it back to RGB because NO B&W image has ever been ever truly neutral in tone (until 'Greyscale' was invented). So just try making it warmer or cooler in Photoshop/Lightroom depending on the emotional tweak you want to add. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Ho Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share #15 Posted June 27, 2014 But don't forget to convert it back to RGB because NO B&W image has ever been ever truly neutral in tone (until 'Greyscale' was invented). So just try making it warmer or cooler in Photoshop/Lightroom depending on the emotional tweak you want to add. Steve Steve, please excuse me for being an absolute pain; I don't understand what you mean by "convert it back to RGB" when in LR (I use LR3). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin Ho Posted June 27, 2014 Author Share #16 Posted June 27, 2014 I am test scanning another film - Iflord XP2 400 with the following settings: Input - Bits per pixel - 16 bits Gray Input- Make grey from - Blue (should it be Auto or Red or Green?) Output - TIFF file type - 16 bits Gray. BTW my workflow include output (LR) in Jpeg on CDs which I can view on TV via a DVD player. With this I can print 4x6 from any lab; at most maximum size of 8x10. I scan at 2400 SPI. Any comments on scan resolution and workflow are welcome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted June 27, 2014 Share #17 Posted June 27, 2014 (edited) Under the 'Output' tab and in the 'TIFF type' options set the output to 16 bit TIFF Grey. Then reconvert it to RGB when in Lightroom. You will then have the best file format to work on. Steve Steve, not disagreeing with you but just offering a slightly different workflow. For scanning B/W film: In VS under Input tab/Bits per pixel, I select '16 bit gray'. Then in the Output tab under Tiff file type I select '24 bit RGB'. This does deliver a pure neutral B&W file with an RGB extension, thus allowing PP as a colour file (an advantage). Also under the color tab I choose the setting under B/W type that renders the widest, but not clipped histogram. For me it is typically 'D-76 CI = .50', but not always. Currently (I keep improving(?) technique), I then open in PS, fix any dust and scratches, then open in Silver FX Pro 2. This give great and fast access to all PS controls I need, but much faster and more convenient. At no point am I dealing with any colour at all. Just contrast and brightness, plus any specials I may fancy. Attached is an image 'thusly' produced. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! FYI: Leica R8 with 80/1.4 Lux with Ilford Delta400 Processed in Xtol. Scanned on Nikon CoolScan 5000 using VueScan. This particular image had no SFX. Only clean up in PS. Edited June 27, 2014 by erl Additional info 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! FYI: Leica R8 with 80/1.4 Lux with Ilford Delta400 Processed in Xtol. Scanned on Nikon CoolScan 5000 using VueScan. This particular image had no SFX. Only clean up in PS. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/229423-scanning-black-and-white-negs/?do=findComment&comment=2618686'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 27, 2014 Share #18 Posted June 27, 2014 Steve, please excuse me for being an absolute pain; I don't understand what you mean by "convert it back to RGB" when in LR (I use LR3). Outputting it as a 16bit Grey TIFF is a Greyscale image, so there are no colour channels. But you can change the image from Greyscale to RGB, or do it as Erl suggests, which is another variation on the workflow. But having colour channels available means you can introduce colour (tint), so like in all the photography books, all the traditional darkroom prints, you can think about the final presentation of the image. It can be a very subtle thing, but a slight tint, warm or cool, can sway the feeling of the image, and is part of what photographers mean when they talk about their favourite photographic papers or if the book is beautifully printed, they are talking about more than paper texture (which in itself is another factor in presentation). But just assuming a picture is made for the web, then the subtle rendering of tone and tint are worthwhile considerations. Steve Steve 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil U Posted June 27, 2014 Share #19 Posted June 27, 2014 Input- Make grey from - Blue (should it be Auto or Red or Green?) On my flatbed using vuescan i get the best results using grey from blue, though the difference is pretty marginal. From what I understand though, different scanners may be, well, different. You just need to make the same scan with each and see which is best for your machine. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 27, 2014 Share #20 Posted June 27, 2014 I use a process similar to erl's - input in grayscale, and have Vuescan output as a RGB .DNG file (instead of TIFF). It is interesting that Vuescan apparently tags its "rgb-monochrome" .DNG metadata in a form similar to Leica MM .DNG files - the white-balance and saturation controls are grayed out in Camera Raw, but the files open in PS as monochrome RGB. The advantage to outputting as .DNG is that you get all the other non-destructive controls of processing a raw image. If you decide you could improve on the toning/sharpening/lens corrections (and WB/profiling for color images), you can always go back to the original raw scan data and start over. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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