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Old 14/09/12, 06:27   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Larcomb, I am writing as a (trained) engineer and a long time practicing photographer. I don't know your background or expertise in the area of 'silver in film and paper' so I must approach your claims/assertions with some scepicism, albeit also some acceptance.

In my distant past there was a sudden rise in the price of silver (maybe somewhere in the 1960's?) and there was an instant response from sensitized media manufacturers to increase the price of products and then to reduce the silver content of films and papers. Similarly, there was a parallel response from photographers bemoaning the 'ruining' of same!

So where is the truth? Do you have it? Can you share it?

On another path, your skepticism of the relevant advertising is sensible. Skepticism of any advertising is healthy IMO.

As far as the Silvermax film is concerned, only use will render the answer, maybe. Dependent on the skills of the consumer, for a start! Personally, I will probably stick to what I know and understand in the selection of films, but am occasionally willing to be seduced by a new excitement. Often, that is all it is.
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Old 14/09/12, 09:10   #22 (permalink)
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Default AW: Adox Silvermax

By the way.. I don't understand this product:

- Color Implosion
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Old 14/09/12, 10:29   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Originally Posted by pop View Post
Would that not translate into a considerable tolerance of over-exposure?
Maybe yes. But I tell you more after I test some rolls.

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Old 14/09/12, 11:13   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: AW: Adox Silvermax

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By the way.. I don't understand this product:

- Color Implosion
This is film's answer to Instagram's answer to film.
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Old 14/09/12, 11:21   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

It could be UN54 from OrWo Filmotec, available in 35mm only, cinefilm, so very suitable for the claimed reverse processing and when you want a good negative from this film you have to adapt your type developer a bit. So an optimized negative developer for this film is not too bad.

Adox/Impex can spool 35mm and 120 roll film since a short time themselves so why not introducing a temporary film themselves to fill the gap of Efke 100/Adox CHS 100.

Advertizing with high Silver content is rubbish and indeed the micro films like ATP1.1 and CMS 20 (all from Agfa Gevaert in Belgium) are just containing a minimum of Silver. One of the reason you can dilute your fixer for ATP 1.1 to 1+7 and your regular fixing time is about 1-2 minutes then. And of course for these micro films you need a special low contrast document developer. All made by SPUR because they have a larger experience in this field. And for sure sold under different names.

But not unusual: Bergger is using OrWo Filmotec N74+ for their own brand Bergger 400+ film now, also available in 135-36 only.

But of course you can order your own bulk film 400ft/122m at OrWo Filmotec and do it yourself. Alternative: Kodak Double-X, it's about the same results.
And when you want to go for really cheap options: TSF (Traffic Surveillance Film) Polypan 90m for Eur. 30,- or so. Cheap crap, very thin layer, curling like hell but hé, it's cheap!

If you want better and still cheaper material try the improved Fomapan films: Especially the iso 100 and 200 are very nice. Available in all formats: 35mm, 120 roll film, sheet film and their new 120 roll film layer is now on Clear Polyester layer with an improved non-curling layer and smoother backing paper.
The new data sheets are available on the Foma website: FOMA BOHEMIA + sp

And you can use all regular developers on it. Tip: Fomapan 100 E.I. 80 in Rodinal 1+50.
Tip: Fomapan 200 E.I. 160 in Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27 1+1
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Old 14/09/12, 15:56   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Larcomb, I am writing as a (trained) engineer and a long time practicing photographer. I don't know your background or expertise in the area of 'silver in film and paper' so I must approach your claims/assertions with some scepicism, albeit also some acceptance.

In my distant past there was a sudden rise in the price of silver (maybe somewhere in the 1960's?) and there was an instant response from sensitized media manufacturers to increase the price of products and then to reduce the silver content of films and papers. Similarly, there was a parallel response from photographers bemoaning the 'ruining' of same!

So where is the truth? Do you have it? Can you share it?

On another path, your skepticism of the relevant advertising is sensible. Skepticism of any advertising is healthy IMO.

As far as the Silvermax film is concerned, only use will render the answer, maybe. Dependent on the skills of the consumer, for a start! Personally, I will probably stick to what I know and understand in the selection of films, but am occasionally willing to be seduced by a new excitement. Often, that is all it is.
The Hunt brothers tried to corner the market for silver in 1980 or so. Kodak and others simply raised prices. There is not that much silver in a roll of film. Probably less than a 1/10 of an ounce. All kinds of wild rumours circulated that Kodak was 'taking silver out' of their products. Utter nonsense. I have been dealing with this nonsense for decades. I bet health insurance costs are a bigger part of the film's cost than silver.

Last edited by Larcomb; 14/09/12 at 16:03.
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Old 15/09/12, 01:28   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

Thanks for your reply Larcomb. I an sure you may right about the 'health cost' but I am still not fully cognizant of the level of importance of silver in conventional films. My limited understanding is that it is vital, but as to the actual quantity and the effect of that quantity, I am unsure. (My) logic tells me that varying the quantity of silver will impact the nature of the film. The same for sensitized paper.

Again my understanding is that when papers moved largely from only fiber based to resin coated, the amount of silver also dropped. Certainly, and with no doubt whatever, the quality of paper 'richness' in tones was proven to drop. This was attributed to 'less silver'.
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Old 15/09/12, 09:43   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

There is a lengthy thread here about the varying content of silver in emulsions, and scientists are present in the discussion. It also leads on to a discussion about silver recovery, something labs have been doing for a long time considering there apparently isn't any silver to speak of in films

Any Hard Data On Silver Quantity?

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Old 17/09/12, 16:23   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Originally Posted by erl View Post
Thanks for your reply Larcomb. I an sure you may right about the 'health cost' but I am still not fully cognizant of the level of importance of silver in conventional films. My limited understanding is that it is vital, but as to the actual quantity and the effect of that quantity, I am unsure. (My) logic tells me that varying the quantity of silver will impact the nature of the film. The same for sensitized paper.

Again my understanding is that when papers moved largely from only fiber based to resin coated, the amount of silver also dropped. Certainly, and with no doubt whatever, the quality of paper 'richness' in tones was proven to drop. This was attributed to 'less silver'.
The quantity of silver is not related to fiber-based or resin-coated base.
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Old 19/09/12, 06:57   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

Picked up 10 rolls at PK for €20 including developer. Will try out as soon as I can.
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Old 19/09/12, 07:48   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Curious to hear of the results. Also, thanks Andy for being a 'proxy' with posting info as you moved around PK. Most of all, your Leica M comments.

Maybe my R glass will shine again, soon!
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Old 19/09/12, 07:57   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

No problem. I have had a great time here as my post in Customer Section stated.

Hotel Cristall is too close to a main road and the station, but I can sleep through Belgium so that's no big deal!

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Old 19/09/12, 09:01   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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Originally Posted by andybarton View Post
Picked up 10 rolls at PK for €20 including developer. Will try out as soon as I can.
I'm curious too as your opinion. Which developer did you get?

Regards
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Old 19/09/12, 09:04   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

It's a small glass bottle with Adox on the label

My bag is in the basement in the hotel so I will be able to tell you tomorrow.
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Old 19/09/12, 19:49   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

Is it this?
or this?

Oh, I think it must be this stuff Silvermax Developer

In the AGPhotographic ADOX section there is a warning about ADOX emulsions being easily damaged. Take care.
Pete

Last edited by Stealth3kpl; 19/09/12 at 20:07.
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Old 19/09/12, 21:02   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

It is the Silvermax developer.

Film works in HC110B too. 7 minutes.

I will use the special stuff first though.
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Old 20/09/12, 12:19   #37 (permalink)
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I just bought 5 Silvermax films incl. developer for 10Eur at Photokina!!!


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Old 20/09/12, 12:29   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

That's the deal I got. They won't have any left by the end of the week
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Old 21/09/12, 03:05   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

Quote:
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Kodak and others simply raised prices. There is not that much silver in a roll of film. Probably less than a 1/10 of an ounce.
Yes, less than 1/10th. It is more like 1/4000th of an ounce in a 36 exposure roll.

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Old 21/09/12, 08:28   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Adox Silvermax

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In the AGPhotographic ADOX section there is a warning about ADOX emulsions being easily damaged. Take care.
Pete
Thanks for the tip. I see that only a water stop bath is recommended, which is not in my normal workflow.

I will try to run a roll or two through the camera over there weekend.
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