Help please - are these hard-water stains?

[Adrian Lord]

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Hi...

 

This was my first attempt at souping negs for 20 years, now I didn't get the spiral loaded right so some frames were totally wrecked and there is the whole gamut of errors and blemishes - but I did wash the film under the tap for about 8-10 mins. We have very hard water here, and some of these blemishes look to me like residue from drying. Do I need to use distilled water or will a squeegee work without damaging the negs? I used a stop and Ilford rapid fixer.

 

Although the film is a completely amateurish lash-up of a development I still really enjoyed the whole process and even the dodgy results! But I must improve fast as I can 't afford to lose nice frames...

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Adrian

 

ps this was Ilford 3200, which is probably a bit tricky for learning on?!

Edited January 24, 2010 by Adrian Lord

[Xmas]

Well if you live in a hard water area I'd borrow the bottle of deionised water that the smoothing iron 'owns' for a final wash.

 

The hard water stains will be extended white deposit on both sides of negative, and wont be easy to miss. Some people get microscopic particles, that will only show upon magnification after scanning.

 

I always us a film squeegee, and a photographic surfant in final wash water e.g. try dish washing-up detergent, in emergency. I live in a soft water area, it is real difficult having hard water, in what area do you live?

 

But it looks like you also kinked at least one frame badly, the emulsion will self expose if you kink it. If you have a scrap length of film you need to practice loading until you can do it with eyes closed...

 

There may be other independent faults as well, if you need diagnostics in future scan the whole film 6x frames - including the sprocket holes, if the camera is new to you we need to make sure that the artifacts are not due to camera. You may need to use a C41 colour film to identify direction of light causing problem

 

Sorry to be mealy mouthed, you need to be patient and disciplined and persistent but it is like riding a bicycle after you fall of once you will be an expert.

 

Noel

P.S. like the shots, stick the film in the deionised water for 5 mins, add single micro drop of washing up liq, and rehang to dry, somewhere dist free, if you have not a pukks squeegee use 1st and 2nd finger instead, not as effective in my experience.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Xmas

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[Xmas]

Hi Adrian

 

Try XP2 and mini lab, until you can do your own with 100% success. Delta 400 is best compromise for even indoor shots.

 

Noel

[andybarton]

Disagree. If you use XP2, you will NEVER learn how to do your own properly.

 

Buy battery top up water from Halfords in a 5 litre plastic can and use that for the final rinse with 2 drops of Kodak Photoflo.

 

I use a squeegee, but many people don't. Whatever, you need to use it with care.

[Xmas]

Hi

 

I did not say exclusively use XP2 he will lose frames that are un-repeatable if he uses D3200 for un-repeatable shots, Adrain instead needs to use XP2 for photo opps and D400 to perfect the process.

 

Note I home process XP2, but it is better to get the D400 perfect and then decide to use XP2 or D400, and learn how to do the C41 process, if you want to use XP2.

 

Noel

[Adrian Lord]

Noel/Andy

 

Thanks for the adivce. We live in Norfolk. I ll try rehanaging after 5 mins and a drop of detergent, might get rid of some residues.

 

I m certain the camera is fine - no probs at all on recent commercially developed film. I ll get some distilled, a squeegee and practice hard.

 

Adrian

Edited January 24, 2010 by Adrian Lord

[Xmas]

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Hi Adrian

 

Hard water then.

 

You need to buy photo detergent, washing up liquid may not be archival, and may leave its own residue if you use too much, You need a pukka film squeegee.

 

The advantage of the squeegee is the film will dry and harden off more quickly, reducing the risk of dust sticking, I run the shower on hot in bath room to reduce the dust menace, then hang film to dry, next to shower.

 

Noel

[DOUG66]

They look like hard water residues to me, I note you have been recommended to use

dishwasher detergent in the above posts, I think they mean dishwasher rinse aid, which is

what I use in de-ionized water. Use just 2 or 3 drops in 500 ml. Good luck, pity to loose those shots.

Doug

[tobey bilek]

Kodak Photoflow or other wetting agent. Detergent may have harmful effects.

 

If you use distilled or deionized water, use less than the 1:200. A little extra will not hurt, too little will get you what already have.

 

Since this is on the base side, rewash that side with a damp microfiber or well washed old handkerchief and it will come off. Don`t touch the emulsion side.

 

Hang to dry. No squeegees or fingers or anything else you dream up. wetting agent is to allow film to drip dry.

[MPJMP]

I've had similar problems and after a lot of trial and error here is what I found works for me:

 

1) Rinse for 15-20 minutes under constantly running cold tap water. Less time does not always wash away all of the fixer, in my experience. Some of what you see could be residue from fixer that wasn't completely washed off.

 

2) After rinsing, do a final rinse by filling up your developing tank with distilled water. Put a few drops of Kodak PhotoFlo in and put the lid on the tank. You may need to experiment to find the right ratio of PhotoFlow, but for an 8 oz. tank about 2-5 drops seems about right. Agitate it for about 20-30 seconds to get the PhotoFlo well mixed. Then dump the water and hang dry. If the negs appear to be covered with a thick layer of "soap suds" consider using less PhotoFlo next time.

 

3) As for drying the negatives I have tried using a squeegee, using my fingers and simply allowing to air dry without touching the film. With the squeegee I ran into problems with scratching my negatives, even when I took great care to clean the rubber blades before hand or using PhotoFlo on the blades as a sort of lubricant. Using my fingers seemed to do better, but truth be told I can't tell any advantage over simply allowing to air dry, so this is now what I do.

 

As long as you do your final rinse in distilled water and use PhotoFlo sparingly you should not get the hard water drying stains.

 

-Mike

Edited January 24, 2010 by MPJMP

[christer]

A damp micro fiber cloth is better than a squeegee. Put it through the washing machine once or twice before first use and don't use it for any other purpose than drying your films.

 

(Looks like a nice house!)

[Adrian Lord]

Big thanks to all of you for the really helpful replies and advice.

 

Much appreciated,

 

Adrian

[earleygallery]

Another drying tip I read on this forum and works well is to use a piece of kitchen paper towel, folded into a strip and doubled over to make a pair of 'tongs' - hold the film in the tongs with gentle pressure and wipe down once only, then leave to dry naturally.

[stunsworth]

Washing up liquid will have all sorts of gunk in it, buy some wetting agent and as Andy says use a few drops per file - you can buy an eyedropper from the chemist to do this easily. A bottle of wetting agent will last years.

 

I don't "do" film these days, but my technique was to do the final wetting agent rinse with deionised water, I'd then flick the film reel vigorously to remove as much water as possible and then dunk the reel in deionised water without any wetting agent. I'd then hang the film up to dry - no squeegee here! Result was negatives without drying marks.

[tobey bilek]

All rubbing down of film has the potential of a piece of debris becoming imbedded and making a full length scratch and there is no reason to do it.

 

I only suggested it to clean an already damaged negative where no further loss can occurr.