Printer for black and white?

[delander †]

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As I enjoy using my M8 more and more I am finding an increased desire to print in B&W.

 

I have a Canon i9950 (i9900 in the USA) printer which is not the latest pigment technology.

 

I have had four custom profiles made for this printer for different paper types and although colour output is excellent, B&W output falls short.

 

The problem appears to be printing midtones without a tint of some kind, green, brown, purple etc. The extent of the tint varies with the depth of the mid-tone and can be seen clearly by the experienced eye on a step wedge or in the prints themselves.

 

So I need a recommendation for a new printer for up to A3+ (13x19?) to give me B&W with a consistent tone (near to black as possible). I dont mind getting custom profiles for it.

 

Epson seems to have the bulk of the market share but what about HP and Canon?

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jeff

[sjt1]

If you want to go for custom inksets (actually quite a bit cheaper than OEM ink becuase you buy in bulk), Check out this thread:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/61004-joh-cone-piezography-epson-1400-a.html

 

I have a1400 wit MIS UT14 in it, and I have had good success with it.

 

You mention different colours, and in addition to colours up and down the tonal range you will also get problems with metamerism if you use colour inksets. This is when you see different colours under different light sources. A classic example of this is that you get a nice neutral tone under warm (3-4000K - e.g. tungsten) light and the following day it looks a horrible sickly green. This problem is reduced (though not eliminated by) custom black and white inksets.

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[wparsonsgisnet]

Jeff, I started the thread referred to above and have the Epson 1400 with Cone's Piezography K6 ink set.

 

I'm still learning, but even the initial stuff looks great. Cone suggests a 200-year life. I'm sure the UT stuff is similar.

[Marquinius]

Jeff,

 

I've been using an Epson R2400 with very good results. It has three black tones and if you use Quad (a Raster Image Processor) you'll get very fine detailed B&W's.

 

Marco

[andym911]

another vote for the r2400...not that I can compare it to others, but it cut's the mustard for me.

 

andy

[delander †]

Many thanks for the replies, I am looking for an out-of-the box-solution as opposed to experimenting with special inks. Also I am not sure that you can get the Epson 2400 anymore, it seems to have been replaced by the 2880. Anyone have experience of that printer?

 

I'll have to think about this because I would really like to have a break from purchasing gear. It is not so much the cost but what to do about the old printer, which is quite large. I have an office with two flatbed scanners (both large and old now) and two printers already.

 

Jeff

[Chrizzlie]

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Jeff,

I used to run an Epson 2100 with Mediastreet QuadBlack inks which produced excellent results together with quadtoneRIP. Quite a hassle filling bulk ink into refill-cartridges with a syringe - but dirt cheap (compare EUR 1.75 per ml to EUR 0.30 per ml)

 

Meanwhile - for size and throughput-reasons - I changed to a 4880 (with original inks) and could not be happier. Minimal testing with the driver-enclosed B/W software piece brings stunning results right out of the box.

 

Since the 2880 essentially uses the exact same inks and a similar printing engine, it might be for you. But watch the ink-costs! The 2880 has (like 2100, 2400, 1900 etc.) roughly 10-12ml of ink per cartridge that sell for ~EUR 12 (MSRP in Germany).

 

You may end up spending less money if get a 3800 which does not differ in the Black ink area (it only lacks the vivid Magenta over the x880s) which sports 80ml cartridges for EUR 53 MSRP (roughly half the price per ml) and allows you to print up to A2+ or 17" wide.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Christian

 

 

PS: I'm back to EUR 0.30 per ml with 220ml tanks on my 4880 - hassle free and clean fingers.

[norm_snyder]

Have printed over the past nearly 10 years with various incarnations of the Piezography inks [Cone], and have been extremely happy with the results, as well as with the apparent permanency. I have pieces, printed on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, which have been on display in a mix of window and artificial light for more than two years in a local restaurant, with minimal, if any noticeable fading. On the other hand....I got an Epson 3800 using an [was using an old Epson 1280 w/ CIS], so that I could print 16x20 prints, and using the Epson inks, couldn't be happier. I am pleased with the gamut, and with Quadtone RIP, have not had problems with metamerism. I got this setup for a particular project, consisting of performance photography in some local jazz clubs, and may never go back. I am particulalry pleased with the result on Iford Gold Fibre Silk, and am now experimenting with the Harman Glossy, which is now available out of NY [booksmart] in 17x25.

[bebert]

I have been with an Epson 3800 for 1 and half year (before with an Epson 4000). Perfect neutral B&W prints (with genuine Epson inks) even with gloss papers (which was not the case with the Epson 4000 which had a lot of bronzing). Print on Hahnemuhle Fine Art Peal, Epson Traditional Photo Paper (Exhibition Fiber in the US) and now just discovered the Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta (beautiful, impressive for the dark tonalities and 3D feeling).

 

I always use the Advanced B&W option (use dark or neutral instead of darker which will kill your shadows).

 

Very useful links to customize your profile in gray mode:

 

Gray Curves for the Epson Advanced B&W Photo Driver

 

Printing Insights #45

 

and

 

Digital black and white photography

 

Printfix Pro (now Spyder3Print from Datacolour) is also part of my tools (great to take grayscale mesures and also to make its own profiles and really worth the money). It takes me now 1 hour to have a perfect profiled print work flow in b&w. A calibrated monitor is also a must.

 

Best,

[ChrisC]

I need a recommendation for a new printer for up to A3+ (13x19?) to give me B&W with a consistent tone (near to black as possible)

 

Jeff, I started the thread referred to above and have the Epson 1400 with Cone's Piezography K6 ink set..

 

Jeff - I suspect you skipped Bill's suggestion too eagerly if you really are serious about B&W printing. How about finding a refurbished A3 printer [not really a 'pro' size, and should be somewhere between cheap, and free] and then dedicate that to B&W printing? Cone labs are pioneers in the subject of your enquiry, and the reports I've had back regarding their ink's print qualities suggest to me you should thoroughly consider their pigment inks.

 

................... Chris

[wparsonsgisnet]

Epson is offering refurb 1400's at $179 and Cone was discounting his CIS by $50. I believe he also sells carts, but the CIS took about 30 mins to set up and does a great job.

 

This is the 4th refurb (different printers, not the same printer... ) that I've bot from Epson. They ship these things for free.

 

Talk about cheap for a CIS and an inexpensive printer dedicated to b/w. I've been trying to get here for a couple of years, am now reading Beardsworth's book on Advanced B/W Printing (recommended in another thread -- thanks!), and find the prints on Hahnemuhle Photo Rag to be as rich looking and as impressive as wet prints on heavy paper from my recently disassembled darkroom.

[haribo]

I use an Epson 3800 with a ColorBurst Rip (the full version, not the one Epson offers). Print mostly on Ilford Galerie Gold Fibre Silk Baryta paper which is an outstanding warm tone paper. Superb quality.

[delander †]

Jeff - I suspect you skipped Bill's suggestion too eagerly if you really are serious about B&W printing. How about finding a refurbished A3 printer [not really a 'pro' size, and should be somewhere between cheap, and free] and then dedicate that to B&W printing? Cone labs are pioneers in the subject of your enquiry, and the reports I've had back regarding their ink's print qualities suggest to me you should thoroughly consider their pigment inks.

 

................... Chris

 

Hi Chris,

 

I did not skip Bill's suggestion, his post prompted me to research various solutions for B&W printing. The problem for me is that I still need a colour printer and desk space is already limited by other stuff on the desk etc. At the moment I have not done anything further but will probably go for an all in one solution. I'm tempted by the Epson 3800 because it will give me A2 if I need it. If I can convince myself that I can replace my scanner (large Artixscan 2500f which can also scan transparencies of virtually any size - which I use in my editor's job) with my DSLR then I'll have the room. Thanks to all who have responded.

 

 

Jeff

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jeff, you might check out inkjetmall.com, which is Jon Cone's site. I remember reading that he has b/w and color ink sets that can be swapped out.

[delander †]

Hi Bill,

 

Thanks I have looked at that site and another about eboni inks. Still investigating at the moment.

 

Jeff

[Jlondon53]

Epson 3800 - advanced Black & White mode - Epson Exhibition Fiber Paper - and never look back.

I'm not kidding. Seriously!

The amount of ink that comes with the 3800 more than makes up for the price.

Exhibition Fiber Paper looks just like the old Kodak Elite fine art premium weight silver halide paper. It will fool the toughest critic of ink jet prints. It also prints both color and BW beautifully so there's no more need for swithching papers and photo/matte black inks.

 

Now please read the first 3 lines again.

[delander †]

Thanks Jlondon, thats definetely a vey entusiastic recommendation!

 

Jeff