Printing - Learning Curve paper

[iLikeLeica]

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Dear all - just starting to try to master (i should say learn) a printing workflow on my newly arrived epson 3880. First couple of prints have some mixed results. Some very good B&W some lesser colour prints. I'm pretty convinced it's down to end to end tweaking & callibration issues which i'll sort out at some point hopefully.

 

Now my question is - clearly i don't want to printing all of these 'tests' that i'll be doing in the weeks to come on most expensive epson/hahnemuhle papers etc. Does anyone have a good suggestion as to a choice for a resonable quality, cost acceptable paper to get me through my learning curve?

 

many thanks.

[Jeff S]

You might check out the Canson line…very high quality for final prints, but generally less expensive than some Epson or Hahnemuhle papers, depending of course on your location and supplier. Canson Infinity Baryta is a favorite among many here.

 

I don't know your level of expertise (including printing in the darkroom world), but even though the best learning comes from experience, it's important to spend enough time upfront to ensure that you've considered and incorporated all the important variables into a disciplined workflow, including proper paper profiles for any paper you choose.

 

This FAQ on the the 3800 is very old, but I'm sure there are more recent guides that might give you a tip or two that could save a lot of time….and paper.

 

Color management is a dense topic, but a basic understanding is key to generating consistent and predictable results. Some basic tutorials are available here and elsewhere. It's important, too, to understand your editing software program and how it integrates with your computer, O/S, and printer. Macs, for instance, had some color management issues with some earlier O/S versions and some LR/Photoshop iterations.

 

Jeff

Edited October 2, 2014 by Jeff S

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[thighslapper]

I'm in the same boat ......

 

.... but the problem is that papers all have slightly different qualities ...... and if you manage to find a set-up that is perfect for some cheap trial paper you may find things will be different when you try the expensive one......

 

If you have a calibrated screen with something like an Xrite ColorMunki then the colour output should be virtually identical on the prints if you use the corresponding ICC paper profile and disable the epson colour management.

 

The only persistent problem I have is final 'brightness' which is hard to predict and I nearly always have to boost this before printing..... but it seems to vary with no real pattern.

 

The other issue is using non-standard papers such as A3+ where I cannot get the settings to save and have to do it for every print or it defaults to A2...... and there seems to be some glitches or things I'm doing wrong with the border settings as I often don't get prints centred .... despite closely following the Adobe LR tutorial videos.

 

I really need a 1 day course where I can waste someone else's ink and paper learning what to do properly ...

 

I don't know if you have Calumet in Belgium ..... but they do a good premium line of paper 'Brilliant' which I bought with my printer and is not too expensive ....but none of the better papers are 'cheap' unfortunately. The Museum Silver Gloss White seems pretty much the same as Ilford Gold Fibre Silk to my untrained eye as far as print appearance goes....

Edited October 2, 2014 by thighslapper

[Jeff S]

The other issue is using non-standard papers such as A3+ where I cannot get the settings to save and have to do it for every print or it defaults to A2...... and there seems to be some glitches or things I'm doing wrong with the border settings as I often don't get prints centred .... despite closely following the Adobe LR tutorial videos.

 

Obvious question, but have you clicked on the proper paper size, borders and feed location, under the "Page Setup" section to the lower left of your LR print module screen? And, of course, ensured that the "margin" settings on the right (Layout) are set to yield centered prints?

 

Jeff

[sanyasi]

If brightness is an issue--causing surprises--then try soft proofing. I find with hahnemuhle baryta, what you see on screen is what you get. On the other hand, matte is much less contrasts than what you see on screen. I use their profiles rather than making my own.

 

Also, even though you may be using a large paper size, practice on the smallest size available.

[thighslapper]

Obvious question, but have you clicked on the proper paper size, borders and feed location, under the "Page Setup" section to the lower left of your LR print module screen? And, of course, ensured that the "margin" settings on the right (Layout) are set to yield centered prints?

 

Jeff

 

yes ..... but LR on my Mac will not use saved custom settings ...... I originally thought it was related to the auto paper recognition on the printer but even disabling this does not work ...... I have to set it every time from the Printer dialog and print from there ....... the page setup settings do not seem to be saved and carried over into printing. Something very simple must me set wrong but I have yet to find it .....

 

Even with standard paper sizes , centred prints and equal margin settings I am getting lopsided margins ..... but curiously not all of the time......

[iLikeLeica]

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If brightness is an issue--causing surprises--then try soft proofing. I find with hahnemuhle baryta, what you see on screen is what you get. On the other hand, matte is much less contrasts than what you see on screen. I use their profiles rather than making my own.

 

Also, even though you may be using a large paper size, practice on the smallest size available.

 

that's a simple but effective suggestion... use smaller paper :-)

[Jeff S]

The only persistent problem I have is final 'brightness' which is hard to predict and I nearly always have to boost this before printing..... but it seems to vary with no real pattern.

 

Easiest solution for consistently dark prints is to turn monitor brightness down….I set mine at 85 Cd/m2.

 

There's also a brightness adjustment in the print module that you can set for each paper profile, which will remain each time you print on that paper, without re-entry. But better not to have to do this if you can get the monitor brightness to match the print.

 

Jeff

[Jeff S]

yes ..... but LR on my Mac will not use saved custom settings ...... I originally thought it was related to the auto paper recognition on the printer but even disabling this does not work

 

What printer?

 

Couple of other things to check…

 

In the page setup and paper orientation, have you kept scaling to 100%? Changing that can mess with LR settings.

 

When you finally are set to print, do you hit the 'Print' or 'Printer' button at the bottom right in the print module? The safest way, given your issues, is to use the latter so that the dialog box comes up for you to check before sending to printer.

 

As you say, the issue is probably a simple thing.

 

Jeff

[esquire53]

I had issues with the printing to be consistent. I'm not sure how it works in detail, but I think it depends what you did with the computer before and if the printer settings in the driver section are changing some settings.

I'm not sure if all the various ways to add the ICC profile for the monitor, paper and so on is doing any good.

I think the only way to fully bypass the printer settings in the OS is to use RIP software.

I tried Efi, just the software is behind the Mac OS and doesn't work with 10.9 anymore. best results are with Imageprint Make Better Prints - ImagePrint and they offer a really good profile lib and they claim all calibrated.

download a trial version.

Mirage is also very good, but limited in paper selection.

[iLikeLeica]

Easiest solution for consistently dark prints is to turn monitor brightness down….I set mine at 85 Cd/m2.

 

There's also a brightness adjustment in the print module that you can set for each paper profile, which will remain each time you print on that paper, without re-entry. But better not to have to do this if you can get the monitor brightness to match the print.

 

Jeff

Hi Jeff - tried this 85cd/m2. What' i'm confused about is link between dual monitor setup (laptop + external screen) calibration and the 'connection' to the print. Can this dual setup adversely impact and still cause too dark a print?

 

thanks.

[Jeff S]

Hi Jeff - tried this 85cd/m2. What' i'm confused about is link between dual monitor setup (laptop + external screen) calibration and the 'connection' to the print. Can this dual setup adversely impact and still cause too dark a print?

 

One size does not fit all…my solution and setting was only for example, not necessarily yours. Monitor brightness is often the easiest solution and first step to check.

 

But the old saying about the chain and its weakest link holds. Every step in the workflow...from camera to computer to editing software to printer to display…matters. People often forget the latter…the display lighting conditions…as crucial to print results; that's where viewing booths can be useful to ensure monitor and display lighting (Kelvin) is consistent. How you view the final print, and how it's lit compared to the monitor, matters.

 

I can't speak for your set-up, but yes, every link matters. Do a web search on "why my prints are dark" and you'll find myriad discussions…it's a common issue, with varying causes and solutions.

 

Jeff

[jevidon]

Dear all - just starting to try to master (i should say learn) a printing workflow on my newly arrived epson 3880. First couple of prints have some mixed results. Some very good B&W some lesser colour prints. I'm pretty convinced it's down to end to end tweaking & callibration issues which i'll sort out at some point hopefully.

 

Now my question is - clearly i don't want to printing all of these 'tests' that i'll be doing in the weeks to come on most expensive epson/hahnemuhle papers etc. Does anyone have a good suggestion as to a choice for a resonable quality, cost acceptable paper to get me through my learning curve?

 

many thanks.

 

Depending on the image, I use Hahnemeule, Ilford, Epson, Red River and Inkpress.

I like the latter for their metallic papers and Warm Baryta. Red River for its Polar metallic.

The other three I use their fine art papers depending on the surface to image match I want.

 

If you are using Photoshop, make a duplicate of your image. Open 'Window' >'arrange' > 'float all in windows' and pull the two images apart so that they do not merge again. Click on the image copy. Open VIEW>Proof set-up.

On the 'device to simulate' dialogue, select the icc profile of your paper, assuming that you have loaded in the icc profiles. Check 'black point comp.' and check 'simulate paper color'. You can play with the 'Rendering intent' dialogue to your satisfaction. Relative or perceptual is usually best.

 

Then compare the images side by side. Correct the image copy until you get a good match to your original image. Click on your original and make the same corrections you made on the copy.

 

When you print the original, you should get a pretty good match to what you saw on your monitor screen.

Edited October 13, 2014 by jevidon

[tobey bilek]

You must soft proof with the proper profile. Basically you set the soft proof one next to the original and then make the soft proof match the original. Then turn off the profile on the soft proof copy. The file may look ugly, but will print normally.

 

The is no law that says you need to make full size proof prints.

 

I used to simply make a 3x5 and move it around on a larger sheet as I tweeked it.

 

Home printing done right is not a cost savings. You need a calibrated screen and proper profile.