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Digital internegative required


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You might consider the Paris lab (Central Dupon) written about in this TOP post for the sale of Peter Turnley prints, produced from M9 and MM files and put on 4x5 internegs for printing.

 

Note that Peter and his team worked carefully with the lab to get what they wanted, and then had one of the world's best printers (with Peter's input) to do the rest. As I said in your other thread, not plug and play.

 

Jeff

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If you have a good quality inkjet printer you can buy the film base.

 

This means you can make a negative as big as your enlarger will take, or as big as you would want to contact print.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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Jack, it is a digital photograph (file) that has been reversed into a negative and that is then printed onto a 'film-like' medium. This can be either as a negative, that can fit into, and be printed from, a traditional enlarger; or as a negative that can be contact printed to produce a print at a required size. All of the printing process involves darkroom, chemical, means of making a print - the marriage of digital and analogue photography.

 

Mike.

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It is of course the reverse of scan-film-print digital workflow. I have some doubt about the validity of hybrid processes. I appears tto me that the disadvantages of both systems are added up. Much as I like a fully chemicaly made image, I wonder whether it is possible to improve on a baryta print derived from a digital file, or if one wants the look of "real" photographic paper, a Lambda print.

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It is of course the reverse of scan-film-print digital workflow. I have some doubt about the validity of hybrid processes. I appears tto me that the disadvantages of both systems are added up. Much as I like a fully chemicaly made image, I wonder whether it is possible to improve on a baryta print derived from a digital file, or if one wants the look of "real" photographic paper, a Lambda print.

 

Jaapv, that's just what I'm attempting to find out. I'm going to have the same digital photographed printed by all three means and see which looks the best.

 

Thank you all for your input and advice.

 

Mike.

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I have some doubt about the validity of hybrid processes.

 

It doesn't need to be valid, it just needs to work.

 

In his latest work 'Genesis' Sebastiao Salgado converted his digital files into digital negatives (complete with fake Tri-X grain) and had them printed on photographic paper. This was to make the images all look the same in a project that started many years ago. Now I'm not going to criticise him, and the book and exhibition look damned good with no hint that this hybrid process doesn't work.

 

Steve

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It doesn't need to be valid, it just needs to work.

 

In his latest work 'Genesis' Sebastiao Salgado converted his digital files into digital negatives (complete with fake Tri-X grain) and had them printed on photographic paper. This was to make the images all look the same in a project that started many years ago. Now I'm not going to criticise him, and the book and exhibition look damned good with no hint that this hybrid process doesn't work.

 

Steve

 

Steve, I was looking at the Genesis book this morning. Some great photography and as you say, some produced with film, some with digital. The book comes with a pullout (as you probably know) that gives details of the photographs, where they were taken etc. and the year they were taken. Knowing when Sebastiao moved from film to digital it is possible to have a good idea which medium was used for a particular photograph and I can't help but try to guess which. They are very close and I sometimes get it wrong but in general the digital photos have more detail. They all look good though. I also have his Workers book, which I think is his best.

 

Mike.

 

Mike.

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It doesn't need to be valid, it just needs to work.

 

In his latest work 'Genesis' Sebastiao Salgado converted his digital files into digital negatives (complete with fake Tri-X grain) and had them printed on photographic paper. This was to make the images all look the same in a project that started many years ago. Now I'm not going to criticise him, and the book and exhibition look damned good with no hint that this hybrid process doesn't work.

 

Steve

 

I don't doubt that it works, but what does it add? Comparing an inter negative with a Lambda print, for instance.(Not arguing, just displaying my L plates...)

Edited by jaapv
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It adds the possibility of true archival processing of the print, it adds the possibility of using 'alternative techniques' like platinum printing etc., it adds the possibility of using your darkroom again, it adds the possibility of exact reproducibility by doing all your dodging and burning before printing the negative. I'm sure I could think of more, but that's enough for now.

 

Steve

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An excerpt from the link I provided above regarding Peter Turnley's process working with the French lab….

 

"
Peter: We use a terrific photography lab in Paris called Central DUPON Images. The process is called making a "shoot." That's what they call it in French—I don't know if there's an English equivalent, other than "internegative."
We have spent time working with one their wonderful technicians calibrating a digital file with a standard set of curves so that when a 4x5 negative is made from a digital file, there is no excess gain in contrast or loss of detail.

 

Mike: Is there usually?

 

Peter:
In general, the digital file that is projected onto a piece of 4x5 film has a bit less contrast than a digital file one would print from directly. We have studied this carefully and made many tests and arrived at a standard setting that enables us to have constant, excellent mid-tone values and levels of detail in the highlights and shadows in the 4x5 negative that the silver gelatin print is then made from
.
"

 

As I said, not plug and play…for an optimal result. And the process will vary based on that intended result, e.g., a different interneg for platinum versus silver print.

 

Jeff

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Jack, it is a digital photograph (file) that has been reversed into a negative and that is then printed onto a 'film-like' medium.

 

There is a bit more to it than creating a negative image that looks good on a calibrated monitor - it is usually necessary to apply a curve to the negative that suits a specific printer, inks and paper.

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Never was happy with inter negs even the ones made by Kodak from my slide. Maker really needs to know how to make color balance correctly. Not sure the film is even available now.

 

The best I have ever seen from digital camera is a laser print from Durst "enlarger" .

 

The middle quality is inkjet. These range from middle grade to very good and the better ones differ mostly in esthetics from prints made on Durst Lambda which are on real photo paper and are always perfect if the lab is good.

 

When you get to large prints, 16x, high end work, a large format inkjet is expensive and the inks dry and are very expensive in a per print basis if you do not use them up. $800 to reink the machine.

 

Lambda machines are $100,000 and not a home investment.

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