Some news about the M8

[pascal_meheut]

There was a Leica Event in Paris today to show the M8 to professionnal photographers. I've been able to get some informations. To be confirmed of course:

- the banding problem is almost fixed but it will require returning the body to Solms
- the IR filter will be the solution and they even had a B+W 486 on a 28mm to demonstrate it. But the final filters will be labelled "Leica" and may or may not be B+W.
- the reason the filter cannot be in front of the sensor is that an interferential filter cannot be coated to avoid reflection. If not, the sensor reflects too much light creating flare. If the filter is not interferential, it consumes light and has a bad impact on optical quality. I'm just repeating what I understood so don't shoot if I got something wrong
- filters will be available end of November or beginning of December. A commercial gesture is sill being considered

And of course, they are working on the R10 but no details.

[Zurenborger]

of topic: is the R10 going to be a digital camera?

[ohnri]

[quote=pascal_meheut]There was a Leica Event in Paris today to show the M8 to professionnal photographers. I've been able to get some informations. To be confirmed of course:

- the banding problem is almost fixed but it will require returning the body to Solms

Except for the returning the body part I consider this to be very good news.


- filters will be available end of November or beginning of December. A commercial gesture is sill being considered

Filter availability by mid-December? That would be better than I expected!

I hope your info is correct!

In the meantime, I'll keep enjoying my M8 and getting great results.

Best,

Bill

[B&W]

Thanks, Pascal

I will wait for the confirmation before I decide what to do

But if the coding will be necessary I do believe I will say goodbye to Leica

[rosuna]

I am not happy with these news.

I wan't to send my camera to Germany for "repair".

The filter solution is acceptable to me.

R.

[scott kirkpatrick]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

- the IR filter will be the solution and they even had a B+W 486 on a 28mm to demonstrate it. But the final filters will be labelled "Leica" and may or may not be B+W.

Which 28? the little one takes an E39, and no one has reported finding the B&W 486 in that size. The larger filter for the 28/2.0 is apparently available (or was).

- the reason the filter cannot be in front of the sensor is that an interferential filter cannot be coated to avoid reflection. If not, the sensor reflects too much light creating flare. If the filter is not interferential, it consumes light and has a bad impact on optical quality. I'm just repeating what I understood so don't shoot if I got something wrong

They had this configuration in the DMR. The cover glass had one IR filter surface layer and one anti-reflection layer. Let's assume that they know the problem would get worse in the M8. The cover glass in the M8's chip is a thin sheet of greenish glass that doesn't cut out IR, and does muck up the reds a bit. But, thanks God, no flare since it has two antireflective surfaces! And it doesn't need "cyan vignetting" correction (which they apparently were doing quietly in the DMR and doing it well).

- filters will be available end of November or beginning of December. A commercial gesture is still being considered

Here's where we should whoop up a storm for those commercial gestures! Personally, I'd like to see the filter come FREE with each newly purchased coded lens, and rebated or discounted when you can show that you own an existing Leica lens.

Good information,
thanks,

scott

[wparsonsgisnet]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

But the final filters will be labelled "Leica" and may or may not be B+W..

Pascal, do you have an opinion on this point? If we are able to obtain B+W filters, now, they should serve equally well compared to the Leica-branded ones (even if not B+W), right?

Thanks for all your effort and information. Regards,

[rosuna]

Leica could sell their filters at lower prices to M8 owners.

[R10dreamer]

Wow, I've been defending Leica but I know of no other camera that you MUST buy an additonal filter to use. That seems incredible and incredibly stupid. This news is going to piss off a lot of people. Filter for a short term fix - no problem. Filter as a permanent fix - problem.

[alexr]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

the reason the filter cannot be in front of the sensor is that an interferential filter cannot be coated to avoid reflection. If not, the sensor reflects too much light creating flare. If the filter is not interferential, it consumes light and has a bad impact on optical quality.

I don't quite get the technicalities, but it sounds like they just don't feel like changing/redeveloping the sensor with a stronger built-in IR filter.
(if Ir filters create flare and cannot be used, why is there one there already on the sensor? one could ask).
Maybe front lens filtration is the only/best solution. Or maybe just the easiest, and they think they can get the customers to swallow that pill without too much pain.

Such disappointing news.
Drop by drop, little by little, it just gets harder and harder to work with these cameras (i mean use them for work). Leica glass and the RF shooting style has gotten me out of jail lots of times. But I have also lost great pictures because of no AF, no zoom, and other "modernities".
It's the usual pro-con battle. I was so looking forward to the m8 being a push in the "pro" direction. I (and Leica) needed that!
I feel really down. After 27 years with leicaware in my hands, i feel it's just slipping away...

[canlogic]

I think that we should be able to exchange our M8's for new ones as they become available rather than haveing to wait for them to be sent back to Germany and repaired. Also I can live with the filters as long as they give me the necessay filters for my Leica lenses.

[Joseph S. Wisniewski]

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

There was a Leica Event in Paris today to show the M8 to professionnal photographers. I've been able to get some informations. To be confirmed of course:

- the banding problem is almost fixed but it will require returning the body to Solms
- the IR filter will be the solution and they even had a B+W 486 on a 28mm to demonstrate it. But the final filters will be labelled "Leica" and may or may not be B+W.
- the reason the filter cannot be in front of the sensor is that an interferential filter cannot be coated to avoid reflection. If not, the sensor reflects too much light creating flare. If the filter is not interferential, it consumes light and has a bad impact on optical quality. I'm just repeating what I understood so don't shoot if I got something wrong

I won't shoot you, Pascal, but Leica's statement doesn't ring true. Many modern DSLRs (Nikon D2X, D2Hs, D200, D80, all Canons) use dichroic filters. I've never seen a trace of flare related to the filter on my D2X or D200. And I know what to look for

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

- filters will be available end of November or beginning of December. A commercial gesture is sill being considered

I would hope so.

Originally Posted by pascal_meheut

And of course, they are working on the R10 but no details.

[kidigital]

Tim,

That'd be my hope/recommendation as well. Create a bit of good will with the customers who first made the leap to the M8. They can refurbish the used copies and make certain that their loyal users have minimalized down time due to an exchange.

Kurt

[guy_mancuso]

Guess I am glad I bought the filters but C1 needs a profile and what about the wide angles , still questions but not enough answers , waiting on more word here.

[grober]

Originally Posted by rosuna

Leica could sell their filters at lower prices to M8 owners.

SELL? Wash your mouth out. You really meant to say GIVE, yes?

-g

[rosuna]

Originally Posted by canlogic

I think that we should be able to exchange our M8's for new ones as they become available rather than haveing to wait for them to be sent back to Germany and repaired. Also I can live with the filters as long as they give me the necessay filters for my Leica lenses.

I agree.

[rosuna]

Originally Posted by grober

SELL? Wash your mouth out. You really meant to say GIVE, yes?

-g

Well, giving is like selling at price zero.

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by Joseph S. Wisniewski

I won't shoot you, Pascal, but Leica's statement doesn't ring true. Many modern DSLRs (Nikon D2X, D2Hs, D200, D80, all Canons) use dichroic filters. I've never seen a trace of flare related to the filter on my D2X or D200. And I know what to look for

I would hope so.

I think Leica must be referring to flare problems specific to the M8 because even their own DMR has IR filtration over the sensor.

[pascal_meheut]

To answer the questions:

- I have no idea whether the B+W filters will fit the new firmware. I hope so, I ordered 2 of them
- the commercial gesture being considered is to offer 2 filters to each M8 buyer. And of course of the sizes he needs
- the 28mm with the filter was a Summicron
- when it comes to the technicalities, I can only repeat what I've been told. I have no way of checking if this is true or not.

[sdai]

This is laughable - to say the least ... but I actually feel a lot better right now, my order will be in if they include a set of free filters consists of at least four different sizes: E39, E46, E55 and E60.