Digital Leica Lenses on Panasonics

[DAVIDMC100]

Forgive me for asking this but I've been off the forum for a while and have fallen behind . Are there any online discussions /tests of the Leica lenses on the Panasonics ? I recently bought a Panasonic FZ28 with the "DC Vario Elmarit" . I already have a M6 with several summicrons and the Panasonic doesn't seem to be quite so good but everyone knows that

[peterb]

Welcome back, Dave,

Actually there's been quite a bit of discussion mostly regarding Panasonic's latest offering in digital photography, the Lumix G1. Basically it's a camera in a format called micro four-thirds which is the 4/3's sensor (jointly developed by Panasonic, Olympus and Leitz and currently used by the DSLR's from Panasonic and Olympus) only in a body that does not require a mirror box. Viewing and, more importantly, precise focusing is done 'live' on an extrarodinarily fine EVF (which is several quantum leaps over most existing EVF's you may have experienced). The view is bright and the image is quite smooth. It's still not as pristine as the view from a rangefinder or optical SLR, but it is very very good nonetheless. (As a previous D2 owner who'd been waiting for something less bulky to use in the digital age that didn't cost what an M8 did I bought one the moment it became available). It's a 12 MP camera with some very promising characteristics like low noise at low ISO's through 800, unmatched color accuracy (as far as I can tell) compared with some its peers and pretty decent resolution (2370 lines bested only by the likes of the Canon 50D, Canon 5DMkII, the Sony A900 (with its huge honkin 24MP sensor) and I will presume Nikon's new D3 with its larger sensor. Methinks, one contribution to these high marks may be Panasonics latest iteration of their Venus Processing engine (which your FZ28 may not have) which, after many misfirings and a lot of hammering from reviewers and users, may no be hitting its stride.

Some (like myself) are privately hoping the Leitz may offer something that would take M lenses without an adapter as sort of an entre to the world of Leica (perhaps using their more modestly priced Summarit line of lenses for example) while moving the M8 to a full-frame (and hopefully fully weather sealed) model that finally delivers the promise of a DRF. Although that remains to be seen. Considering how Leitz has suddenly offered up all kinds of googahs for their D-Lux 4 camera (fancy bags, a grip and now a titanium finish) that they hadn't done on previous digital offerings, I suspect they may be ripe for such a possibility. But who knows? As most of have accepted here, they aren't the swiftest camera company on the planet although with bold moves like the S2 they might be a-changing.

With no mirror box required, lenses that couldn't be used in regular SLRs as well as DSLR's (like rangefinder lenses) can, with an adapter, be fitted to this new camera as well as many older SLR lenses from many marques. And there in is the excitement. And that is exactly what is happening as a number of players like Novoflex, Camera Quest, Milich and others are quickly milling brass and fashioning adapters to allow all kinds of optics to be used with this new camera system (hailed, by the way by Pop Photo. as the camera of the year).

According to Sean Reid on his fabulous website , Reid Reviews, lenses as far back as the 1930's can be used. Additionally, Sean and with others have noted that with direct focus from the live view issues like focus shift (where the real focus is not in tune with the system's focusing mechnics) simply vanish. And

The only thing is, as you might expect, once you've focused, unless you're shooting wide open, you have to then physically stop down the lens to fire.

As I said, Panasonic has the first such camera already available and at Photokina this year, Olympus presented a mock-up of a version they may roll out next year that appears to be sort of a digital version of their famous Pen-FT half-frame reflex camera they had in the 60's and 70's.

In the meantime, the G1 with adapters available currently is allowing M glass as well as Zeiss M and Cosina-Voigtlander glass and, soon according to another poster (Monza) the likes of Nikon, Canon and Pentax and a slew of others.

Peter

[DAVIDMC100]

Wow, thanks for the info Peter. I do have three M lenses and two screw mount lenses that would be nice to put on a digital ( less expensive than a M8) camera like the G1. I looked at the processing engine and it looks like the Panasonic FZ28 and LX3 ( I assume the same as the Leica D-Lux 4) have the Venus IV while the G1 has a Venus HD. Interesting.

[earleygallery]

I'm not aware that Leica had any input into the Panasonic G1 and they appear to have dropped the 4/3 format. Panasonic only offer their own branded Lumix lenses for it which is another sign that Leica aren't going to go down that route.

As for the Leica/Panasonic lenses, they are made by Panasonic (or a sub contractor) but Leica have helped with the designs and quality control - I wouldn't expect them to match the quality of a Leica M or R lens however. After all, they are a fraction of the price if nothing else (even allowing for the camera they come attached to).

[peterb]

Hi David,

Yeah, I think that this Venus HD may be a significant milestone for Panasonic and I find it interesting that this version appears on this first MFT (micro four thirds) effort of theirs. Sort of a line in the sand saying, "Hey all you naysayers, we got it right finally. Now see what we can do."

Hi James,

As far as I know, on record, Leica had absolutely NO input whatsoever on the thing. That said, the kit 12-45mm kit lens boldly says 'Vario' on its barrel, which, to me, is a bona-fide (and possibly even copyrighted) Leica word. The optics of the lens have been well received as it is a zoom with aspherical elements that from my experience and others seems to have excellent sharpness, contrast and very little chromatic aberration across the zoom range.

And my guess is Panasonic is taking a huge loss on this kit lens with an aspherical element to give the MFT a realistic shot at proving its viability as a system to be reckoned with. If Leitz didn't have a hand in it I'd be surprised. Perhaps Leitz was consulted briefly. Or, at the very least, as I had mused on another site, after having produced a number of genuine Leitz-designed optics for previous Panasonic (and Leitz) digital cameras (while Leitz was on record as a partner), perhaps the folks at Panasonic picked up a thing or two about lens design simply by closely observing a renowned master after having assembled so many! Also, if you look at some of the super optics that Olympus has created for their DSLR's considering the gushing reviews at these f2.0 stellar pieces of glass it's clear (no pun intended) Olympus is no slouches in the optics department either. So Panasonic, who's really the newcomer in the non-tv camera biz certainly has palled around with some formidable photographic partners. But who knows?

I do find it odd that Leitz dropped their support for 4/3's since (A) they were a part of it and (B) the micro four thirds which all three parties (Olympus, Panasonic and Leitz) must have known at the time meant all sorts of tantalizing possibilities in body design when a mirror box was no longer necessary as a consideration in lens design which, to me, must have been in Leica heaven. But Leitz is a bit of a go-it-alone kinda company with a lot of pride (and stubbornness I suppose) in continuing what they consider perfection. The M8 demonstrated that their concept is still viable in this millennium, especially when you consider they've been coming out with uber improved optics for the line nearly every three months (a new f0.95 Noctilux????). And the S2 seems to be an Oskar Barnack/Ur-Leica all over again (hmmm 1913...2013...not bad) by fiddling with a very large format sensor and managing to fit it neatly in a body a little smaller smaller than the top Canon and Nikon offerings but with optics and an imaging that would give Hasselblad and other medium format makers pause (although the issue of legacy commitments to existing medium formats is certainly something in Hassy et. al.'s favor).

Peter

[farnz]

Originally Posted by peterb

... That said, the kit 12-45mm kit lens boldly says 'Vario', which, to me, is a bona-fide (and possibly even copyrighted) Leica word. ...

I'm afraid not, Peter. For example there's the Zeiss Vario-Sonnar lens.

Pete.

[peterb]

Good point. I stand corrected. But you gotta admit in optics circles you typically see the word "Vario" associated with a lot of renowned German optics.

[jrethorst]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

I'm not aware that Leica had any input into the Panasonic G1 and they appear to have dropped the 4/3 format. Panasonic only offer their own branded Lumix lenses for it which is another sign that Leica aren't going to go down that route.

Do you need an adaptor to use an original 4/3 lens, e.g. the Leica 25mm Summilux 1.4, with a micro 4/3 body? Is the metering stop-down?

[peterb]

From what I can tell for Leica lenses designed for the D3 or the Panasonic L1 like the 25mm f1.4 or the 14-50mm f2.8-3.5 VARIO-Elmarit, you would need Panasonic's 4/3's adapter which goes for about $140 at B&H in New York. Best of all, according to Panasonic, unlike the Zuikos, the Leitz lenses retain their autofocus function.

The adapter also works on the fine Zuiko lenses as well (but currently only a few still have autofocus, otherwise you have to focus them manually like anything else connected via an adapter).

To use R lenses for the moment you find the R to 4/3's adapter designed for the Digilux 3, then take that and hook it up to the Panasonic 4/3's adapter (sort an adapter to an adapter).

But there may be an R to Micro 4/3s adapter on the way.

[earleygallery]

Originally Posted by jrethorst

Do you need an adaptor to use an original 4/3 lens, e.g. the Leica 25mm Summilux 1.4, with a micro 4/3 body? Is the metering stop-down?

Just to add, yes you do - the sensor to lens flange distance is shorter on the micro body so you need an adaptor simply to make up the extra space between the two.

[andybarton]

How many years is it since Leitz changed their name to Leica?

Leica have an input into their branded lenses on Panasonic cameras and, we were told in the summer, have QC colleagues based in the Far East, wherever the lenses are made. If it doesn't say Leica on the lens, it will be a Panasonic/sub-contractor design with no Leica input.

The m4/3 concept has been taken forward by Panasonic and, less enthusiastically it would seem, by Olympus. Leica have left the party, by the looks of it.

[terrycioni]

Greetings,

The Panasonic URL below provides an overview of what works and what doesn't.

To keep Leica in the subject - the 25mm F1.4 Leica 4/3 lens will auto focus using the Panasonic G1 MA1 adapter. Important is to ensure all the firmware is updated (see notes on the website). The 25mm can be bought a B&H....

Panasonic | 25mm f/1.4 Leica D Lens for Four Thirds | L-X025

Compatibilities of DMC-G1K/DMC-G1W/DMC-G1 | Compatibility | Digital Camera | Product Support | Support | Panasonic Global

I am waiting for the M to m4/3 adapter which could be fun. (Mr. Milch is currently shipping an LTM to m4/3 and has an M to m4/3 on the way).

Best regards Terry.