R10 speculations

[mmx_2]

Hi everyone!

Just a few quick speculative questions about R10.

It has been said that this will be an autofocus camera, what will the viewfinder look like, since normaly autofocus cameras does not feature a split image? Any suggestions on how to solve this dilemma?

Any price suggestions? Hard to speculate of course, especially since we have not yet since the price tag on the S2-system, but it would be interesting to see what you guys think!

Do you really think that this will be an autofocus camera?

Merry christmas to all of you from a cold (-6 degrees C) Sweden

Joakim

[stunsworth]

It could easily have a split viewfinder. I use one on my Canon 5D.

I'd expect it to be full frame, autofocus, with backwards compatibility for existing R lenses.

[mmx_2]

I you use the split image viewfinders on Canon, does the autofocus still work then?

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by mmx_2

I you use the split image viewfinders on Canon, does the autofocus still work then?

Yes.

[TimF]

I'd expect it to be full frame, autofocus, with backwards compatibility for existing R lenses.

The last two have certainly been told to me anyway. The first is more rather than less likely I'd reckon.

[wildlightphoto]

Maike Harberts has said it will be full-frame, autofocus, and will be compatible with existing R lenses. My speculation is closer to R7 size than D3 size, weather sealed, and the AF lenses will have no aperture ring. My fantasy is that it will have an SL viewfinder.

[stuny]

Based on what the R8 & R9 look like, and based on what the S2 looks like and its relative size (Photokina photos of the S2 next to a DSLR) I suspect its shape will be evolutionary from the R8/R9 & S2, and no bigger than the current film-only R8/R9. That, plus the fact that the S2 has an SL viewfinder suggests that the R10 will have one, too.

[Emile]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

It could easily have a split viewfinder. I use one on my Canon 5D.

Hi Steve

Where did you get your focusing screen ? I'm looking for buying one also, and I've only found these 3 providers :
. Focusing Screen
. Haoda : Canon 5D split image focusing screen
. Brightscreen : styles of screens

Thanks, Emile

[stunsworth]

Emile, I bought the Brightscreen screen.

[wildlightphoto]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

It could easily have a split viewfinder.

A split-image focussing aid does me no good. I prefer a viewscreen that can be used to focus quickly and easily anywhere in the picture area, like the SL. A "ground glass" viewscreen if done well is adequate, the tiny microprisms of the SL viewscreen work better for me.

[mgcd]

Originally Posted by wildlightphoto

A split-image focussing aid does me no good. I prefer a viewscreen that can be used to focus quickly and easily anywhere in the picture area, like the SL. A "ground glass" viewscreen if done well is adequate, the tiny microprisms of the SL viewscreen work better for me.

I like having all three and like the R8 the possibility of changing the focussing screens.

Cheers,

[crbirchenhall]

Originally Posted by wildlightphoto

Maike Harberts has said it will be full-frame, autofocus, and will be compatible with existing R lenses. My speculation is closer to R7 size than D3 size, weather sealed, and the AF lenses will have no aperture ring. My fantasy is that it will have an SL viewfinder.

Doug

You may have inside info but frankly the R7 model does not excite me; I hope for a modern ergonomic design. Frankly if Leica do not show signs of emulating the Nikon/Canon highly useable format and stressing the glass then they will miss the sweet point of thier options.

I understand it will be compatible with only ROM lenses?

[wildlightphoto]

Originally Posted by crbirchenhall

You may have inside info but frankly the R7 model does not excite me; I hope for a modern ergonomic design.

The R7 design doesn't excite me but the size would be preferable to the size of the R8/DMR I'm using now. It can be R7 size and R8 ergonomic design, that would be OK with me.

Originally Posted by crbirchenhall

I understand it will be compatible with only ROM lenses?

I haven't heard one way or another.

[GreyCoupe]

The whole works in a body R8 sized or smaller would be terrific. R7 sized would be fine, but the ergonomics of R8-9 are something special and clearly influence the S2 body. I agree with Doug that R8-9+DMR is unwieldy, but I don't think the R10 will be anywhere near as big or as heavy--at least I hope not.

[adan]

Just for the record, SLR auto-focusing takes place in the mirror box, before the light ever reaches the ground-glass. Therefore the type of ground-glass used has no effect on AF operation.

Split-image or microprism screens may have an effect on metering accuracy, especially spot metering, if the metering is done off of the screen. The previous R cameras metered via light diverted through the main mirror, so the type of screen used did not affect metering. That may change if the R10 is AF.

I expect Leica will provide interchangeable screens to keep Doug and everyone else happy with their preferred "view".

I expect the R10 will have a mini-S2 sensor - i.e. a slightly finer pixel pitch than the DMR/M8 sensors, which will boost it into the mid-20's Mpixel range. As well as any other innovations Kodak and Leica may put into the S2 sensor. That goes with Leica's stated intention of using the S2 as the "techonology development" platform for the M and R systems. S2-grade weather-sealing, etc.

I always found the R4-R7 to be a bit "skinny" and in need of a bit more volume to be comfortably hand-holdable, while the R8/9 in my hands were a bit too fat. But I could live with an R9 body size if it incorporates the motor.

I'd expect the R10 to be priced roughly on a par with the top-end Nikon-Canon full-framers or a bit more. Somewhere between $7500-$9000 (depending on currency variations, of course). Not only are there now four AF-24x36 cameras already out there under $5000, but Leica is also going to need to leave some daylight between the R10 and the S2 bodies, and I think there is going to be strong resistance to a $10,000+ "35mm" body, no matter how good.

[overgaardcom]

For some reason Leica did show the R7 on display at Photokina as the model for the R10 but I don't think they will keep the shape. Rather the size and build quality. So one shouldn't take it so serious.

I would think the size of Canon 5D or less, based on the size of the S2, and the design towards the S2 which is anyways a redesign based on R8/R9.

See the video on my R10 site which I think gives a good idea about the thinking behind it all: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica R10 Full Frame 35mm integrated dSLR camera coming in 2009-2010

[leicar7]

"That, plus the fact that the S2 has an SL viewfinder suggests that the R10 will have one, too."

To stuny: Many of us would like to know the origin of this information.

I know of no written or verbal statement that the viewfinder engineering mimics the SL/SL2.

[stuny]

Sorry for the confusion. By "SL" I just meant Single Lens as in SLR viewfinder, not the Leicaflex SL. What we can reliabley guess though is the approximate size, shape and features of the body.

[E.M]

I hope it 'll have a 100 % viewfinder, because I don't crop photos, and also a very short shutterlag, under 50 ms please.

Etienne Michiels

[Sandokan]

I would like to see REAL controls - i.e. real shutter speed dial, real EV compensation, real ISO ... Having multi-menu systems like the Eastern digital cameras (with everything in a LCD display) may make for a cheaper system, but a well designed, ergonomic experience would be mandatory for me. In other words, I do not want a 400 page manual which has to be fully read and understood before the camera is useable. Like a film camera, I want an intuitive logical system.