Panasonic LX3 with DLux4 firmware?

[Isabelle Lenatio]

Could you exchange the firm ware of both cameras .... Hack it so to speak, would this be possible?

[stunsworth]

I would doubt. it.

[lazaruz]

Originally Posted by stunsworth

I would doubt. it.

why do you doubt it? is there some hardware incompatibility? if there is then these are not "sister" cameras

i have not done this on any camera - but it sure sounds like if you could find the leica software image it could be flashed onto the lx3 camera..

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by lazaruz

why do you doubt it? is there some hardware incompatibility? if there is then these are not "sister" cameras

Not really. You just need a setting in an eprom that identifies the model. If that isn't correct the firmware won't load.

I think the same question was asked when the LX2/D-Lux 3 was released.

[digger1914]

Don't the Leica versions have different processing parameters? This is one of teh selling points for the more expensive option. If so, it would be unlikely that they would let you do the end around and upgrade the Panny version to the Leica settings.

[rob_x2004]

I doubt it.
Someone has again said the jpg saturation contrast and noise reduction settings might be less aggressive on the Dlux, but even if it is the case there would be plenty of overlap. The light in your shooting conditions would make more difference. Ever seen someone trying to match "white" swatches?
Again I would ask prove it. That is refer to a specification or a notice from the manufacturers, not some sales rep told me.

[miami91]

FWIW, David Farkas indicates on his photokina blog that the differences between the DLux4 and the LX3 go far beyond the JPG rendering and physical design. He says the menu layout is different, and the RAW files are different. The justification offered for the latter bit is that the RAW file from the DLux4 is supported in CaptureOne v4 (which is bundled with the camera), whilst the Panasonic RAW is not. This is clearly an easy thing to verify, although it also just as clearly doesn't decisively prove that the RAW files are different (only that they contain reference to the camera model).

Jeff.

[lazaruz]

Originally Posted by digger1914

Don't the Leica versions have different processing parameters? This is one of teh selling points for the more expensive option. If so, it would be unlikely that they would let you do the end around and upgrade the Panny version to the Leica settings.

i think the OP's question presupposed that doing so would violate some TOS and was questioning whether it was technically possible

[rob_x2004]

Originally Posted by miami91

...and the RAW files are different. The justification offered for the latter bit is that the RAW file from the DLux4 is supported in CaptureOne v4...

???? How does one mean the other?

Yea I know Lazarus. Cant see the point myself unless it is to get raw facility in C4.

Also begs the question, how many people understand their camera well enough to go tooling round with the settings based on the nuances of the light they encounter. Not many I would have thought. All the "sage" advice is "I shoot raw" hoity toity.

[miami91]

Originally Posted by rob_x2004

???? How does one mean the other?

Rob, I was only quoting. I'm not convinced either. It might very well be the case that the RAW files are different, but C1 compatibility doesn't prove it.

Here's the link to David Farkas' blog: David Farkas Photography Blog. He discusses the D-Lux 4 towards the end of his Sept 28 post.

Here's what he says: "This is a serious compact camera for photographers. The camera ships with Capture One v4 software which allows RAW file processing. Interestingly, the Panasonic LX3’s RAW files are actually different and are not supported in C1. So, the differences go beyond skin deep between these compact camera cousins. Sure, you get a longer, 2 year warranty with the D-Lux 4, nicer styling, better accessories, and a completely different menu system, but there are differences in the image processing as well, even for the RAW files. In the past, only the JPG output was different. Well, it would appear that Leica is getting more say in the design process now as this camera feels much more suited to the Leica shooter. "

David's a very reputable guy, and by virtue of being a long-time Leica dealer seems to have pretty good access. I'm tempted to take him at his word.

Jeff.

[rob_x2004]

Originally Posted by miami91

...but there are differences in the image processing as well, even for the RAW files. In the past, only the JPG output was different.

I dont doubt David has been told that. But I think "differences" shoudl be quantified and not left in the "assumed better than" basket. If they are different, I doubt it makes any difference in practice as other things will come in to play. At the moment there only seems to be second hand reports from reliable people who have chatted informally with someone or another.

It is perfectly valid to chose your model for cosmetic reasons. Add to that, if one camera makes you happier I would think you are more likely to use it, and use it more comfortably.

Does anyone have any feelings on the cameras AF? I saw someone post that he reckoned the previous models AF was better than the oppositions previous AF.

[mhoutman]

just curious to know if the d-lux 4/lx 3 have a "firmware update" menu item ? (as the d-lux 3 didn't)

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by mhoutman

just curious to know if the d-lux 4/lx 3 have a "firmware update" menu item ? (as the d-lux 3 didn't)

Well the M8 doesn't have one either. It is automatic when you insert a card that contains a firmware, whether new or original.
What would be the point of having that menu item.
I've never done it but I bet if when you insert a card with a firmware on it and the camera start up and asks "Do you want to install this firmware" and if you select NO the camera would probably say to turn the camera off. The firmware update part of the camera is different then the real startup, limiting all functions on the camera so you can undate the firmware. Having a menu item would be pointless. The camera, computer with a lens attached, has already started and couldn't do a firmware update anyway.
IIRC it is the same for Nikon.

[stunsworth]

Originally Posted by Shootist

IIRC it is the same for Nikon.

Canon too.

[J Mitchum]

The D-Lux 4 does not use an entirely different menu system. It is identical to the one used on the LX3 except it has a color scheme and some slightly altered graphics that make it reminiscent of the M8 menu system. It does look nicer.

See comparison images of the menus: LX3 -vs- D-LUX 4
(you can open these in tabs in your browser and compare them side by side)

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by Isabelle Lenatio

Could you exchange the firm ware of both cameras .... Hack it so to speak, would this be possible?

I don't know if it can ar can't be done, but someone on the M8 list just mentioned having bricked his camera after hacking the firmware and writing some bad code, then trying to re-install it. The repair is going to be several hundred.

[Shootist]

Originally Posted by fotografr

I don't know if it can ar can't be done, but someone on the M8 list just mentioned having bricked his camera after hacking the firmware and writing some bad code, then trying to re-install it. The repair is going to be several hundred.

Actually Brent it was me that made that statement and I was in error.
The M8 users was Hans, forget his user name, and although he did modify the firmware that wasn't the reason his camera got bricked. He was loading one of his modified firmware and used a bad/corrupted SD card. That was the real cause for the camera failure.