You know what I'm looking forward to...?

[adan]

I got a chance to pixel-peep some M8 RAW shots on a Leica rep's laptop today at a Leica Day. Ones I'd just made using his sample camera and card (didn't get to keep any, of course - still betaware).

What I'm looking forward to is comparing my 15mm c/v on my personal M8 to ANY equivalent Canon camera/lens combo: 5D or 1Ds with a 20mm, or 1D with the Canon 14mm.

That l'il old Cosina 15 is gonna chew their hinds legs off! Less vignetting, less color fringing, better resolution EVERYWHERE (thanks to the absence of the AA filter). And that's with NO corrections outside the camera - just the effect of the offset microlenses.

For that matter, the C/V on the M8 has less vignetting than my 21 does on film - AND it has much less vignetting and fringing than it did on the R-D1, and what corner darkening there is is very smooth and subtle.

Ohhhh, baby! Come to papa!

[jonoslack]

Hi Adan
right, you've helped me to decide on one lens to buy!
Perhaps you can help me with others. I'm not an experienced rangefinder user, I have an M8 on order (I've lusted after an M7 for years, but it really wouldn't fit into my digital workflow). I'm soo excited about getting to grips with it all, but lens decisiions are very tricky.

I want the camera for travel / landscape / portrait more than low light / reportage, I am planning to get three lenses to start with, the voigtlander 15mm seems to be a no brainer (this is what you are talking about rather than the expensive ziess?). This is a screw lens - which presumably means I need an adaptor to go with it - should I get a leica one? help please!

I would like a 90mm of some sort - but I'm not sure which of the Leica lenses to go for - probably the f2.8, but would I be better off with the APO or a secondhand non APO (some suggestion seems to be that the extra contrast on the apo lenses may give DR problems).

for the third lens I'm leaning towards a 50mm for portrait work - should I go for the 1.4 or the 2, and again, should I go for the APO or not?

Sounds like I might need a 28mm too (any suggestions). . . . or maybe the tri-elmarit for this mid range?

Sorry to seem so stupid about this, but these are expensive decisions to make, and they seem to be fraught with difficulties; one wants the best, but it would be nice to save a couple of grand into the bargain!

Thanks in advance for your help
Kind regards
Jono slack
(jonathan slack - photographs)

[rvaubel]

Originally Posted by adan

I got a chance to pixel-peep some M8 RAW shots on a Leica rep's laptop today at a Leica Day. Ones I'd just made using his sample camera and card (didn't get to keep any, of course - still betaware).

What I'm looking forward to is comparing my 15mm c/v on my personal M8 to ANY equivalent Canon camera/lens combo: 5D or 1Ds with a 20mm, or 1D with the Canon 14mm.

That l'il old Cosina 15 is gonna chew their hinds legs off! Less vignetting, less color fringing, better resolution EVERYWHERE (thanks to the absence of the AA filter). And that's with NO corrections outside the camera - just the effect of the offset microlenses.

For that matter, the C/V on the M8 has less vignetting than my 21 does on film - AND it has much less vignetting and fringing than it did on the R-D1, and what corner darkening there is is very smooth and subtle.

Ohhhh, baby! Come to papa!

Andy

Please tell me you are not smoking something. You saw this with your own eyes? If you can verify this, can you imagine what the 12mm VC will do? It has even less vignetting and is also ultrasharp.
If it's true that Leica has beaten the vignetting buggaboo associated with the symetrical wide angle design, the whole complextion of what can be produced will be revolutionised.

Now I'm starting to really get excited.

Your not teasing, are you?

Rex
arf,arf

[Peter D Lux 2]

I can understand you can not wait to compare your wide angle lens on the M8 to ANY Canon/wide angle... I'm certain it will be fun!

What do you think the results will be comparing, say, 90 mm lenses? I hope to make lotst of portraits with my new M8...

General question: should I buy a new - sharp - APO portrait lens or should I try to find a softer, older and cheaper, second hand?

Thanks,

Peter

[marknorton]

Makes you wonder whether the whole lens coding thing was a backup in case the micro-lenses didn't deliver. With 20/20 hindsight it might not have actually been required.

[chrism]

Shortly after I bought my CV 15mm the RD-1 was announced, and I picked up the 'D' viewfinder for the lens thinking I would get an RD-1. It will be interesting to see how useable this accessory viewfinder is on the M8. The 15mm lens acts like a 22.5mm on the M8, and a 20mm on the RD-1, so I should get a little more in the edges of the shot than I expect - definitely better than the reverse.

Chris

[adan]

Originally Posted by marknorton

Makes you wonder whether the whole lens coding thing was a backup in case the micro-lenses didn't deliver. With 20/20 hindsight it might not have actually been required.

Actually, Mark - the reps said that was more or less exactly how it worked out. There is still room to correct for normal optical vignetting (as well as the EXIF data, etc.) But the sensor alone did far better than they expected.

BTW - one of the camera salesmen stuck his R72 infrared cutoff filter on the M8 (as well as a DMR and a prototype Digilux 3), and they each recorded infrared images, white foliage and all.

Also BTW - I didn't mean to pick on Canon - their old breech-mount 20mm was the first 20mm I ever owned, and got me hooked on the FoV.

[adan]

Jonathan: I managed to try quite a few lenses on the M8: mine, store samples, the reps samples. I wouldn't make any definitive judgements based just on the small screen view, or the brief larger views on the laptop (especially with beta software) - but I have confirmed to my own taste that the lens lineup I had already established is a good starting point, for me.

15 Cosina/Voigtlander, 21 pre-ASPH Elmarit, 28 Elmarit (same era as the 21), 28 'cron ASPH (my one "premium" lens, just for the aperture), 50 f/2, older 90 f/2.8 micro-compact, and my even older 135 f/4.

After some time doing real-world shots with my own camera, I may eventually consider revisions or additions.

I'd probably avoid getting a 90 f/2 to start - one really needs to try one out on one's own camera with one's own eye to see if the focusing accuracy will be adequate. I've tried both on the M8 briefly, and they SEEM to do OK, as does the 75.

[adan]

Rex: No smoke, no mirrors!

Although I might point out that the C/V lenses are not perfectly symmetrical designs like, say, the 21 Super-Angulons or 15 Hologons. There's a little bit of retrofocus in the designs, to allow metering and clear the metal shutters in the Bessas.

I'll leave it to Sean Reid to test the 12mm and report once he gets his "production" M8.

[rvaubel]

Originally Posted by adan

Rex:
Although I might point out that the C/V lenses are not perfectly symmetrical designs like, say, the 21 Super-Angulons or 15 Hologons. There's a little bit of retrofocus in the designs, to allow metering and clear the metal shutters in the Bessas.

M8.

Andy

True, but if the semi-symmetrical design will work with the offset micro-lensing it may be possible to design a somewhat fast ultrawide that is a lot more compact than my Canon EF 24mm/1,4. Olympus did it with their 21mm/2.0 If that lens was available in an "M" mount, it would be extremely popular...assuming the vignetting could be brought under control.

How about a nice 18mm/F2.0 ? That would be the cat's meow.

It would be terrific if the rangefinder advantage of short back focal length could be exploited in order to create a class of compact, fast, wides that would be impossible in a SLR design.

Dreamin & Schemin

Rex

[marknorton]

With them having filled the two obvious gaps in the lens range - the hole left by the discontinued 28mm f2.8 and the need for someting ultra-wide - it will be interesing to see where they go next, either in terms of updating an existing lens or a new offering. Won't be tomorrow, though.

[jonoslack]

Originally Posted by adan

15 Cosina/Voigtlander, 21 pre-ASPH Elmarit, 28 Elmarit (same era as the 21), 28 'cron ASPH (my one "premium" lens, just for the aperture), 50 f/2, older 90 f/2.8 micro-compact, and my even older 135 f/4.
.

Hi Alan
Many thanks - that's seriously useful. I want to do this properly, and I'm willing to spend the necessary money, but only if it's the best answer!
I am interested in a longer focal length lens for compressed perspective in landscapes, and also for detail shots, but I guess the answer is to go to my dealer and try out the focusing when I get hold of the M8.

The other lenses look sensible - I'll probably go for a new 15mm, and start looking for the others now (before the rush starts and the prices go up!).

I'm sure that there are many photographers in my situation, who have longed for a rangefinder but who really are committed to digital. We live in exciting times!

Thanks again
Kind Regards
Jono Slack
jonathan slack - photographs

[neila]

I'm curious about the subject of lense coding - but I'm not at all technical.

Currently I have a Voigtlander 35mm F2.5. A Summicron 35mm F1.2. A Summicron 50mm F:1.2 (my favourite) and am Elmarit 90mm F1.2.

I mostly use the 50mm as it's a wonderful lense - do I need to get these coded for the M8? I'm not sure what the coding subject is all about, is it simply for Exilif information? If so, I don't use that data.

A pointer would be welcome! Thanks....

[jrc]

Jono,

We used to chat occasionally about our Kodak SLRn's...Some months ago, I bought an R-D1 as a supplement to my current DSLR, and started collecting lenses. A lot of people on these forums emphasize wides because rangefinders are so good for fast, close-up work. But in collecting lenses, I acquired a Noctilux, the 50mm F1.0; I've been working with it for a while, and I found it a really intriguing lens, especially early and toward the end of day; to me it has an odd, old-timey quality to it, while remaining sharp and flare-free. I can't really tell you exactly what I'm talking about, but if you get a chance, borrow one and try it out. People will tell you that it's too heavy, but compared to Nikon zooms, it feels quite compact. Also, to me it seems quite sharp, and even sharper when stopped down a bit. On my R-d1 it's an f1.0 75mm FOV; on the M8, it'll be a 66mm. I mention this only because you said you might like a bit of compression for landscapes, and the Nocti draws in ways you don't often see...like soft, saturated darks...I don't think you'd find a better lens for a warm, humid summer night in the countryside...

JC