Hands-on trial with beta-M8

[adan]

I got 20-30 minutes with a beta-M8 yesterday (Saturday). For anyone who cares, here are some impressions.

For the record, I got the preview on the understanding that I could not keep any shots - only view them on the LCD. Which was fine for my purposes.

I had some specific things I wanted to check relating to the sensor and the "camera" part of the camera (not firmware-related), and did have success evaluating those from the LCD, or from just holding and shooting.

First impression: Slightly weird, after all the hype and pictures. Like meeting Arnold Schwarznegger in person, or going to the top of the Empire State Building for the first time. Not disappointing, not disillusioning - but subliminally DIFFERENT in 3D from the preconceptions and expectations built up in 2D.

Size, weight and grip: Right smack in the ball-park of any 35mm RF-type camera. Leica, Konica RF, Contax G, Nikon SP, Canon 7. The shutter button fell under my finger, the focusing tabs fell under my finger. Unless one has a "princess-and-the-pea" complex, or is used to the fingerprints they've worn into their M3 over 40 years, it's a non-issue.

The sample had no strap, so I was doing the three-handed juggle to change lenses. Never once felt like it was about to slip from my grip. Did not try a "glove test" however.

Viewfinder: Different, in the same way that .85x or .58x finders are different. Framelines of slightly unexpected sizes in unexpected places. The 28/90 pair is the least changed, whether one sees it as 28/90 or "35/120". The images of the finder and frames posted at dpreview (link below) are representative, except that the overall finder view is nowhere NEAR as wide as it appears there. The 24mm frame is right at the edge of the black window border, with or without glasses. Just inboard from where the 28 frame would be in a .72x film M.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/leicam8/page4.asp

I don't like the 24/35 combo myself, and think the new 75mm frame looks like an autofocus bracket. Glad I already decided to go with 28/50/90 lenses....

It is my strong impression that the frames wider than 50mm are a touch more accurate than they were in film Ms. As though Leica took out a little of the 'windage' they used to allow for slide mounts and negative carriers and the like - no longer needed in digital.

Meter arrows and numbers seem smaller and less intrusive than in an M7/M6ttl - but then I haven't used M7s much. Usable without being remarkable - which is a GOOD thing.

Focusing - see 135mm trial below.


Sound: My impression is that the shutter sound was not really louder than, but a bit "brighter" than, my M4-2. The motor sound is certainly quieter than the external M motors or the other motorized RF cameras (Konica, Contax). A rubbery "thumm-PUH". No "kick" to the shutter button on winding. Guess it will be up to that apocryphal judge somewhere to decide whether it still qualifies as "no louder than a Leica M" for courtroom work. I do think the "Oh my GAWD! It's an SLR shutter!" reactions are a bit - overcooked.

Other hardware: The "door" for the USB plug near the finder eyepiece is basically a captive rubber stopper. Pull it out and it hangs from an anchor line. Push it back in like any bottle cork.

I would have preferred M7-style leatherette to the MP-style 'sharkskin' covering, but what the heck - there's always CameraLeder.com.

The classic-style art-deco frame-selector lever feels a bit strange, since I'm used to M4/M6 square plastic-filled levers.


Specific lens trials:

Vignetting with 15/21 lenses: Seems quite well corrected, even with uncoded lenses (and the code-sensing turned off in the camera). I think my C/V 15 will be just great until Leica gets a prime 16mm f/2.8 out the door. Definitely a less abrupt drop-off (if any) than with the R-D1. The offset microlenses look like they do the job.

Sensor reflections with the 15/21: Shot the sun reflected in a car bumper in a corner of the frame. Even at 1:1 on the LCD I saw no sign of the multiple flare-like internal reflections that the R-D1 sensor produced from bright light sources.

Framing the 21 using the edges of the built-in finder: Not very close, IMHO. If the viewfinder had really been as 'loose' as in the image linked above, it might have worked. But in reality one ends up with quite a bit extra in the final image. Time to buy a 28mm finder.

Mounting and framing 28/50/90 lenses: Fine - except that my old 90 TE, which is intermittently stiff with some bodies, was quite stiff on the M8. My first candidate for 'coding' - if only to get the lens mount replaced.

Focusing and framing a 135 TE: Focusing was fine at all distances - and shows off the near-APO quality of that 40-year-old lens. It LUVS digital. Framing will require more practice than I had time for. Basically, the technique is using the RF patch for aiming and estimating an area 2x longer and wider than the patch. May only be realistic for scenics where one can 'chimp' the image to check framing - time will tell.

"Prototype" issues:

Hardware: The latch-key on the bottom is supposed to turn 90 degrees from open to closed and vice versa. I noticed that on this sample it was possible to turn it a full 180 degrees (easy to do if one is thinking "M7"). Needs a heavier stop.

Firmware: Clearly still "beta" when it comes to a few fine points, both as to imagery and operation. If the little bugs I saw are still there once Leica says it's ready - then they can be critiqued.

Summary: I got positive answers (in both senses) to the main issues that concerned me - vignetting with uncoded lenses, reflections off the sensor with the "film" superwides, and focusing longer lenses.

BTW - for anyone on the Colorado Front Range: The camera I got to try will be available for handling next Friday and Saturday at a Leica Day at Englewood Camera. Englewoodcamera.com for more info. No purchase required.

[stunsworth]

Thamks for that Andy, very interesting indeed.

Perhaps the more realistic frame lines explains why a lower magnification body than the old .72 is unable to display the frames from a 21mm lens (28mm angle of view).

[marknorton]

Very interesting, Andy. How did you find using the SET button to change the ISO or AE+/-? Any shots at high ISO? Image noise? I'm pretty much resigned to buying both an aux finder and a magnifier.

Vignetting seems well controlled, it's going to be interesting to see what the impact on image quality of coding turns out to be, if any.

[adan]

Mark: SET-scroll-SET-scroll-SET. For ISO. Just used the shutter lock (little red dot lights up to show lock in the finder) for exposure comp. An ISO button would be nice, but I don't play with it as much as, say, Sean does, so it isn't a huge deal for me. About the same as the D2.

Don't really like to comment on "beta" image quality in detail - but if I were guessing as to what Leica is still fiddling with, I'd guess they are (from camera to camera and version to version) experimenting with different values to zero in the blur/sharpness balance of the moire filter, and for COLOR noise reduction at the highest ISOs, not luminance.

One squirrely thing I noticed is that the full-frame review images look substantially noisier - and a bit more jagged - than zoomed in to 1:1. So whatever part of the firmware 'resamples' the images for review is also part of what they are still perfecting, it would appear.

[stunsworth]

The exposure compensation does seem very fiddly. It would be nice if you could half press the shutter and then press one of the buttons on the back to increase or decrease the shutter speed.

The LCD panels on every digital camera I've owned have been poor. These days I find the histogram far more useful.

[TimF]

Very interesting stuff Andy, and good to see Damien Demolder's comments about the CV 15mm not having the same degree of vignetting with the M8 as it does with the Epson confirmed (from AP R-D1s test in new issue, out Tuesday in UK).

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[rosuna]

I have a few suggestions to Leica for a better control of ISO and EV in the M8.

I think the better solution would be the simpler one (the fewer steps, the better).

I would suggest to press the "protect" button (it should be named "function" button instead) and turn the dial wheel to the right for 1) directly activating ISO options and 2) scrolling and selecting ISO options. In the same way, press "protect" and turn the dial to the left for 1) directly activating EV options and 2) scrolling and selecting EV options.

The "set" button or the shutter button would confirm the selection. WB is not important to me because I will not use JPG or TIFF modes.

[jrc]

Thanks. Wish we had more reports like these.

JC

[harmsr]

Andy,

Thanks for the information.

FYI - For those in the Phoenix AZ area, all the new Leica cameras will available for review at Photomark on Oct. 6th.

Best,

Ray

[jlm]

how do you find out when a viewing can be had in one's own area?

[cbretteville]

Andy,
Thanks for a good concise writeup. This is very encouraging. Particularly the comments on the 135 TE.

- Carl

[guy_mancuso]

Andy,

Thanks for the information.

FYI - For those in the Phoenix AZ area, all the new Leica cameras will available for review at Photomark on Oct. 6th.

Best,

Ray


Thanks Ray I will be there with bells on. LOL

[egpj]

I'm actually excited about a digital camera. Must go buy some Tri-x and say 10 mega-pixel Hail Marys.... I mean 10 Hail Marys. doooh!

[MP3]

Andy

Your first hand impression is very much appreciated.

Best
Matthew

[peter55]

Yes thanks Andy! I have read and re-read your review of the Digilux 2. A very imformative review. So anything you have to say will be noticed and read by yours truly.

It was good to hear that the camera is comfortable in your hand and that the controls feel in the right place. I use an very excellent M5 and I do find it a bit large and cumbersum. So I understand why it never sold well. But it was at a very good price and so at least I do have my own Leica TTL film camera and can use my Summilux.

The new M8? Well I have been awaiting something like this for a few years. Good to know my nice Leitz lens can now go digital.

Please post any additional thoughts you may have in the near time future concerning the M8 as I am facinated by it.

I'm spending some cash while I still have it on painting supplies because I know when the M8 comes out I will get it and a nice 35mm lens.

[Bob Ross]

Hi Andy,
Thanks for the report. You certainly hit the important issue of vignetting at the extremes. My 135 TE will be happy to know it wont be retired and miss the digital scene.
When I downloaded the frameline images from dpr, I found that they were resized to 4:3 from 3:2, apparently to fit Phil's web page layout. When I resized them to 3:2, they looked better and may be more like what you saw. With only a few days to Photokina we should be getting a string of hands on variations to compliment yours.
Bob

[marknorton]

I'll be there tomorrow, so will contribute my own bit, though obviously not as comprehensive as Andy's.

[rfleica]

this has encouraged me more than any other piece of info. especially the feedback re cv15 and shutter/motor sound . thanks

[guy_mancuso]

Mark we are looking for a full report on the M8 and any other news you may hear. Also let us know what is being said on the Tri-Elamar.

[albertwang]

How was the histogram setting? Does it separate into the different color channels like on the Olympus E-500?