Merger Leica / Sinar

[Saloti]

Wouldn´t Leica & Sinar be an interesting merger issue ?

Both companies would cover the whole range of cameras,
with complementary focus/competencies, plus a synergy
potential with regard to overhead structures.

[mjh]

They tried to acquire Sinar two years ago (and nobody really knew why, back then), but it didn’t come to pass, for undisclosed reasons.

[Saloti]

Maybe that the latest cooperation agreement is a first step towards new
dynamics. I cannot image that Sinar plays a major role in the Jenoptik
Group, after having read their latest business reports.

I would expect that Sinar has more know how with regard to digital
photography, Leica is still the reference with regard to lenses, both
Leica and Jenoptik have Austrian shareholders. Maybe that an
Austrian "connection" will lead these brands into a bright future...

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by Saloti

...Maybe that an
Austrian "connection" will lead these brands into a bright future...

Now that's wishful thinking. The market is flooded with used Sinar LF gear at firesale prices. A P2 on ebay didn't get the minimum bid of $1780 while list price on a new one is $8500. I wonder how much new gear Sinar sells. Check out the stratospheric pricing of the Hy6 and its lenses and tell me where the market is for this. (The part of the market that Hasselblad doesn't already have.)

[Saloti]

Alan, this is interesting. I did not make this research. On the other hand
what you write might mean that Sinar is not in a strong position at all.
If this was the case my theses would be confirmed that they do not
contribute a lot to the Jenoptik business, maybe even the contrary is
the case.

In this case Sinar is a M&A candidate and my scenario not ridiculous,
from a pure economic point of view (synergie potentials are evident in
the fields of administration and sales structures, maybe also R&D).

However, a week Sinar company merging with a partly still week Leica
company might not be the most attractive couple...

[AlanG]

Jenoptik and Leica...

JENOPTIK AG Press Releases

[jaapv]

Originally Posted by AlanG

Now that's wishful thinking. The market is flooded with used Sinar LF gear at firesale prices. A P2 on ebay didn't get the minimum bid of $1780 while list price on a new one is $8500. I wonder how much new gear Sinar sells. Check out the stratospheric pricing of the Hy6 and its lenses and tell me where the market is for this. (The part of the market that Hasselblad doesn't already have.)

I don't think Leica needs the Sinar turnover, they need the Sinar expertise, specifically for the R10 project.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by jaapv

I don't think Leica needs the Sinar turnover, they need the Sinar expertise, specifically for the R10 project.

I am not sure what expertise Sinar has that will help Leica. The Sinar digital backs are from the parent company, Jenoptik, which already is working with Leica.

The Sinar Hy6 is made by Franke & Heidecke. The Hy6 lenses come from Schneider and the Sinar M lenses come from Zeiss. I've tried the Hy6 camera and it is very nice. (I used to shoot a lot with a Rollei 6006.) I am not sure where the Sinar M comes from but I don't think it was a very successful camera. I've never tried one, but if it is so great, why did they introduce the Hy6? The Zeiss 40 f4 AF lens for the Sinar M costs over $12,000 and isn't very wide on a 36x48 sensor. The Sinar view cameras haven't changed much in 35 years except have gotten smaller for digital.
Let's see, a Sinar M, mirror module, 4 lenses and eVolution 75 back will cost about $85,800 (And you'll probably need some other accessories.) The Hy6 and 4 lenses will run about $50,000 to $55,000 with the 75 back.

http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf

[zapp]

Originally Posted by AlanG

I am not sure what expertise Sinar has that will help Leica. The Sinar digital backs are from the parent company, Jenoptik, which already is working with Leica.

The Sinar Hy6 is made by Franke & Heidecke. The Hy6 lenses come from Schneider and the Sinar M lenses come from Zeiss. I've tried the Hy6 camera and it is very nice. (I used to shoot a lot with a Rollei 6006.) I am not sure where the Sinar M comes from but I don't think it was a very successful camera. I've never tried one, but if it is so great, why did they introduce the Hy6? The Zeiss 40 f4 AF lens for the Sinar M costs over $12,000 and isn't very wide on a 36x48 sensor. The Sinar view cameras haven't changed much in 35 years except have gotten smaller for digital.
Let's see, a Sinar M, mirror module, 4 lenses and eVolution 75 back will cost about $85,800 (And you'll probably need some other accessories.) The Hy6 and 4 lenses will run about $50,000 to $55,000 with the 75 back.

http://sinarbron.com/documents/Sinar_Pricing_2008.pdf

Better wide angles for less: put your digital back on a camera dedicated to wide angle use, namely Alpa and so forth. The Sinar Hy 6 is basically an open platform, compare it to the Leaf Hy5/6/7. The back makes the quality and the price these days, the technology behind the body is basically Rollei, too bad they managed again to go bankrupt instead of putting their own name on a very nice camera.