Some News (or Rumor) About R10

[overgaardcom]

Oh dear, slightly off topic we went!

The 'revolutionary' element in the iPhone was not the (lack of 3G) but the package and the way you use it. Well, unlike many other Apple products the iPhone was not available for sale world wide, so that was an exception (though 8,000 uses iPhone in Denmark and 10,000 in Norway, even it hasn't been released there yet).

Much of what Apple does is not inventing new stuff but combining existing technologies they copied, bought or redesigned.

Interface and usability is the key, as well as the business model of course (as in iTunes and in the way they get percentages from mobile companies with the iPhones).


In short, and on the topic, I know guys who are waiting to see whether the M8 will be full-frame or not before they get one. So they try to skip the first generation. All because it was pre-announced that it might be.

In a digital age, my philosophy is that you go with what is available now, not in 8-12 months. Few digital cameras will have a life span further than 2-4 years anyways. Which means brand loyalty is as short as that. While waiting for the next M8 you might discover Sony and then that's a M8 sale that is not going to happen.

Look how Nikon get pro Canon shooters even it is more than likely Canon will get in front again, shortly. Because Nikon can deliver right now.

One could argue that for the R10 (which some of us hope will be a SL10) it wouldn't hurt the nonexistent sale of R gear to pre-announce.

Given the speed of development in digital I don't think even Leica knows exactly what will be in the package.

The most convincing part of both the M8 and the DMR has been the picture quality. All pre-announcements on the market goes on sensor sizes, pixel count, frames per second, stabilization, etc.

Few or none are on the subjects that really mattes: The picture quality and how much fun it is to use the gear.

The two qualities Leica has always been known for and which is what made the D2 a classic. Which is why I think developing with beta-testers and then release it when it's ready is the way to go.

And sell it the day after (I really would hope so).

[paulmoore]

I don't care about the public...I just wish they would pre-announce to me..but summer is coming and I will be enjoying some off time on the water..now a water proof proof nikonos/m8 hybrid would interest me this summer.. you think anyone has made an underwater housing for a dmr?? I think it would have to be a submarine.

[santila]

I just got the Nikon 200-400 VR lens and must say I am very happy with it. Now if I just could afford a better camera body then what I got then I wouldn't care what Leica is coming out with.

[sdai]

I personally know a guy who has converted several C/Y mount and R mount lenses and use them with focus confirmation successfully on a A700 ... if the "R10" doesn't support "legacy" lenses natively, or its price is simply out of whack, then it'll make a lot of sense for us who can't write off the camera as expenses to try the same on the forth coming 25MP Sony "A900".

I think a lot of top tier dealers, regional distributors etc already knew exactly what it is in the pipe ... people were talking about auto focus, new mount even before the M8 launch. The guessing game won't last long. Our German friends are not good at keeping secrets like they could once awhile ago.

[stunsworth]

You can already use R lenses on Canon dSLRs and have been able to do so since the first one was released. And for the last couple of years you've been able to do so with focus conformation. All by purchase of a cheap adaptor.

I did this myself for several years. The compromises inherent in this solution mean it will probably never be a mainstream activity.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by sdai

Our German friends are not good at keeping secrets like they could once awhile ago.

That's very funny...

[like_no_other]

Originally Posted by sdai

I personally know a guy who has converted several C/Y mount and R mount lenses and use them with focus confirmation successfully on a A700 ... if the "R10" doesn't support "legacy" lenses natively, or its price is simply out of whack, then it'll make a lot of sense for us who can't write off the camera as expenses to try the same on the forth coming 25MP Sony "A900".
...
.

Do you know how the conversion of these lenses was done?
I ask because this is the first time I heard of it. R at Canon mount is popular, I thought R at Minolta A mount is not possible because of different "Auflagemaß" (sorry don't know the english word, maybe someone can translate?), ->at least focusing issues for far distances possible.

[sdai]

Originally Posted by like_no_other

I thought R at Minolta A mount is not possible because of different "Auflagemaß" (sorry don't know the english word, maybe someone can translate?)
.

I think the "Auflagemaß" you were talking about is the distance between the film plane and rear element of the lens.

The flange distance of R mount is 46.9mm ... for Minolta A mount it's 44.5mm, for EOS mount it's 44mm, so an adapter is perfectly doable for both Canon and Sony cameras.

The guy who tried to convert the lenses actually took off the R mount and machined a new mount to fit the A700.

[offshore]

Originally Posted by AlanG

That's very funny...

Alan how did you get a picture of the M9?

[like_no_other]

Originally Posted by sdai

I think the "Auflagemaß" you were talking about is the distance between the film plane and rear element of the lens.

The flange distance of R mount is 46.9mm ... for Minolta A mount it's 44.5mm, for EOS mount it's 44mm, so an adapter is perfectly doable for both Canon and Sony cameras.

The guy who tried to convert the lenses actually took off the R mount and machined a new mount to fit the A700.

Yes, that's the "Auflagemaß". And thanks for your research of the numbers. They explain why your friends solution worked. Should there maybe be some pictures made with R lenses on A700 on the web?

Your friend converted the lens itself. I think I remember now what I read somewhere. If I remember correctly the diameter of the Canon mount is quite large compared to the A mount. Therefore adapter solutions work for R-to-Canon but not for R-to-A. The R lenses have some parts that don't fit into the A mount because their position is too much outside for the smaller diameter of the A mount.
If that's true R lenses would have to be changed permanently to be used on A mount cameras whereas the Canon solution works with an adapter and one can easily switch between Canon and Leica cameras.

[sdai]

Originally Posted by like_no_other

If I remember correctly the diameter of the Canon mount is quite large compared to the A mount. Therefore adapter solutions work for R-to-Canon but not for R-to-A.

The diameter of R mount is 49mm, the A mount diameter is 50mm, the EOS mount diameter is 54mm ... so the EOS mount is 4mm larger than the A mount, but, the A mount is still 1mm larger than the R mount. You may be right that some of the R lenses may not fit into the A mount.

I don't think the guy I mentioned about has tried a lot of R lenses on the A700 because he isn't really a Leica shooter. I'll ask if he agrees to hotlink some of his pictures on the web.

[earleygallery]

Seems that Leica can't really win.

Stay tight lipped and people will complain that they don't know what to do if they're about to buy a new camera - wait and see or buy a Canon/Nikon now?

Yet if Leica released even the briefest of details of any new SLR there would be a forum frenzy on why the new camera won't be good enough, what they could've or should've done instead and of course the mandatory "will Leica survive" and "If I were CEO" type threads.

Can't people just have a little patience? If you really can't wait then there are plenty of other options for you out there.

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

Yet if Leica released even the briefest of details of any new SLR there would be a forum frenzy on why the new camera won't be good enough, what they could've or should've done instead and of course the mandatory "will Leica survive" and "If I were CEO" type threads.

And this isn't happening now? Maybe Leica sees some benefit in all of the speculation. But even a camera that gets criticized is better than no camera at all. Plus if it deserves criticism in advance it will also deserve criticism when it's released.

I think what is clear is that nobody likes to feel abandoned by the camera company he/she has chosen and made a commitment to. And that is exactly what Leica has done to its R users until proven otherwise. Maybe they'll prove that at Photokina, and maybe not.

If Dad leaves home for a few years, can't he at least write or call to say when he plans to come back? Without any word, why wouldn't Mom find a new guy?

[Riley]

Originally Posted by AlanG

That's very funny...

indeed it is, seems to be working out for them this far

where did you find that enigma cypher machine image Alan?
Ive never seen a 4 wheeled machine,
i always thought they were either 3 for the Wehrmacht or 5 for the Kriegsmarine

[AlanG]

Originally Posted by Riley

indeed it is, seems to be working out for them this far

where did you find that enigma cypher machine image Alan?
Ive never seen a 4 wheeled machine,
i always thought they were either 3 for the Wehrmacht or 5 for the Kriegsmarine

My grandfather smuggled it out of Germany into Bletchley Park. It's been in my basement for a while. ;-)

I just found it online. I don't know that much about them except the usual info.

Enigma

Note: "in the case of the Kriegmarine's M4, the selection of the fourth, 'Greek' , wheel and its 'thin' reflector."

It's funny about the 3 vs. 4 wheels because the Washington Post Sunday magazine features a photo every week where they make 12 alterations and you try to spot them. One time they featured 2 Enigma machines. One had 3 wheels and one had 4. (They removed the 4th wheel in the "doctored" photo.)

Here's the link:

Washington Post Magazine: Second Glance - Finding the differences between two photographs. (washingtonpost.com)

[Riley]

interesting, thanks Alan

[thrid]

I wonder if Sony will sell a variant of their upcoming full frame 24MP chip to other manufacturers...

[like_no_other]

Originally Posted by sdai

...
I don't think the guy I mentioned about has tried a lot of R lenses on the A700 because he isn't really a Leica shooter. I'll ask if he agrees to hotlink some of his pictures on the web.

Today I found some pictures. The photographer changed the mounts of some Leica and Voigtlander lenses to the Minolta mount. Some of the Leica pics look very good.

Here is the link (be warned, many pictures):
Leica macro 60 on A700, built-in flash: Sony SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[sdai]

Originally Posted by like_no_other

Today I found some pictures. The photographer changed the mounts of some Leica and Voigtlander lenses to the Minolta mount. Some of the Leica pics look very good.

The guys I talked about is from China and he isn't responding to my email ... all Chinese forums are flooded with posts about the massive earthquake now, nobody seems to care about Canon, Nikon or Leica.

But at least, you now believe it's doable ... actually, it's not something new, people were doing this from the old days with film cameras. Here's a picture of a Argeniux 45-90/2.8 in R mount properly converted to fit the Minolta electronic mount.

http://www.xitek.cn/forum/200801/528...1200053528.jpg