LEICA ANNOUNCEMENT: New Leica Products - LEICA M8 / M System

[Rower]

there is an exclusive preview on dpreview...

Leica M8, Exclusive Preview: Digital Photography Review

They actually had a M8 for testing!

Really cool...

[henning]

I had an M8 to try for about 10 days end of last month.

All lenses I have worked fine, except for Hologon and 21/3.4. That includes 12, 15, 21 CV, 21 ASPH, Tri-E, 35/1.4 ASPH, 35/2, 50/3.5 old (1931) 50/2.8 new, 50/1.4 ASPH, 50/1, 75/1.4, 90AA, 90 TE, 135 TE and some oddball stuff like various Photars on an Aristophot with Viso III and the following:

http://www.archiphoto.com/Various/Incognito.jpg

There was no vignetting noticeable beyond what you would see on film (no rigorous test, though) with any lens. All focussed easily, including the longer lenses. I particularly enjoyed the 75/1.4 and used it quite a bit wide open. I showed again what an amazing lens it is!

Achievable image quality was extremely high and noticably better with the wider lenses than I have gotten with my Canon 5D and Canon lenses.

Very nice and straightforward to use. A true M.

Henning

[albertwang]

Originally Posted by henning

Achievable image quality was extremely high and noticably better with the wider lenses than I have gotten with my Canon 5D and Canon lenses.

Da, Da, Da! I am glad to hear that someone belives that Cannon widers and L's suck on the overpriced 5D!

Seriously, commercial #1 vendor doesn't mean the best. It just means a higher percentage of deceived photogs.

(by the way, I know the Eyes of EOS book, so that I can know the enemy's territory better...)

[Sherwood Nash]

Now it's all official

To all the Leica design team, great job!

This is a beautifuly simple and uncluttered design, I love it!.




Sherwood

[guy_mancuso]

Albert your preaching to the choir here. been saying thyat since the 1ds came out, actually been screaming that. LOL

Guess that is why i am here

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by lct

0.68x vf mag, too wide for me i'm afraid.
How to focus 75/1.4 lenses at full aperture with such a magnification?
Will be interesting to see this and a couple of other things like shutter lag when shooting raw but i'm sure the pictures will be outstanding and for now congrats and best wishes to Leica!

Hi LCT,

Did you read my review already? Both issues addressed there.

Cheers,

Sean

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by plexi

Hmm, I`m not usually the one drooling over reviews, but this one is one I`d like to read Sean, you should sell it standalone

I'm just not that kind of girl...<G> I'm hardly impartial but I'd argue that the whole site is worth the subscription. Needless to say, Phil (in his "exclusive" review) and I approached this very differently.

Cheers,

Sean

[sean_reid]

Originally Posted by Rower

there is an exclusive preview on dpreview...

Leica M8, Exclusive Preview: Digital Photography Review

They actually had a M8 for testing!

Really cool...

`

Exclusive eh? Actually got to work with one...hmm.... I must have been misunderstanding the meaning of "exclusive" all these years.

Cheers,

Sean

[guy_mancuso]

Honestly i read every review already and it sounds like a winner , the one area that bugs me as Sean brought up and i have been saying it for a couple days now is the dependence on the LCD screen for ISO and EV. For some this may not be a issue but if speed is paramount and you under the gun and want to work in A mode or switch ISO a lot , this could be a issue. this can also be changed in firmware as we speak too so until it ships out the door maybe there is some hope there. it is not a deal breaker but something that could have been looked at differently. i know leica wants a clean look and we all think the same but a flip switch between ISO and EV with a quick hit of the dial would have proved good and also in shooting mode hit the the navigation buttons left arrow for ISO hit the dial up or down , right arrow could have been the EV and hit the dial up or down your thumd is right there without even looking. there are several ways to do this and it is all in the firmware. I would wait another month to see something like this personnally and i would think many journalists may think they same thoughts. Otherwise this is really awesome from everything i have seen and read so far. i have no doubt in my mind the images are as good or better than the DMR. Scary part is Leica will OWN image quality in the DSLR and Rangefinders. That is one serious achievement given they are both first edition camera's . My hat is off to them, no question.

BTW read Sean's review, well done my friend


Professionally speaking making the switch to leica was one of my best gear decisions in 31 years

[marknorton]

Sean, read your review, very comprehensive.

A concern you have - which I also covered in my own posts here - is the access to what you call the digital controls (mainly ISO, EV+/-, WB), both setting and checking them. The nightmare scenario is that you switch to ISO 2500 for a couple of shots and forget to set it back and without realising it, spend your whole day shooting at ISO 2500.

I was at the new Mercedes-Benz museum in Stuttgart on Sunday taking more than 400 shots with my D2X. I was frequently adjusting the ISO and EV, and can see this will be a pain on the M8.

I would have thought that this item should have been caught in development as a result of feedback from real-world users. What I always feared would happen, has happened. Leica have been so keen not to upset the traditionalists and keep the design as clean as possible that the usability of the camera has been compromised.

It may be that there's insufficient space under the top cover for a bigger LCD, maybe it was too late in the development process but the relative difficulty in using these functions is a pity.

I wish you had pounded the table a bit harder!

Not a show stopper for me, but it could have been better.

[henning]

ISO is changed by hitting the 'set' button. Then you're in the secondary menu, and the ISO being at the top is automatically selected. Hit 'set' again. Scroll with wheel or arrows. Hit set again and that's it.

The only thing I'd fix is the need to hit that last 'set'. That could be eliminated. Then it would be: Set, Set, scroll to select, touch shutter release. One button click more than Canon.

Henning

[budrichard]

It's obvious that this camera and all digital cameras that have less than a 35mm sensor are stop gaps in the digital war. The life cycle of products in this age of CAD/CAM can now be measured in 1-2 years. The instant you purchase one of these cameras, there is a more advanced design waiting in the wings. In fact, increased profitablity is now built into the design cycle as the expectation is that you will purchase the new design and get rid of your old product. 10 Mega Pixels is not that great compared to film. The need for a tri focul lens with an exterior finder is a stop gap measure, some would say half a$$ed.
I have long viewed these type of products as Pro/Consumer cameras. The so called digital lenses that accompany these cameras are not suited for low light applications and are generally not constructed to professional standards. In this case though, I expect the lens to be constructed to Leica standards.
For my M lenses and for my Nikon lenses also, I will wait until full frame cameras are available and not be sacrificed upon the leading edge of technology.
Its a very nice camera but its not going to replace my M3, M6 and M7. My M7 with Leica M Motor is as good as I have ever used in a rangefinder. Of course the drawback is that I don't have instant gratification of viewing the product and can't readily email the picture. But I believe much of the market for this sort of thing is manufactured and not needed. I can see the need for digital news photography and product photography but for serious work, I need high resolution and large apertures. -Dick

[marknorton]

Nikon is one button press, thumb the dial. That's it. For ISO, EV+/-, WB, Quality, Flash and so on.

I think speed of setting is one thing, not being able to see the settings at a glance is the real problem.

[marknorton]

Originally Posted by henning

ISO is changed by hitting the 'set' button. Then you're in the secondary menu, and the ISO being at the top is automatically selected. Hit 'set' again. Scroll with wheel or arrows. Hit set again and that's it.

The only thing I'd fix is the need to hit that last 'set'. That could be eliminated. Then it would be: Set, Set, scroll to select, touch shutter release. One button click more than Canon.

Henning

Henning, presumably the purpose of the last set is to allow you to abort your change by just touching the shutter release.

Can you see these key settings just by pressing the set button and remove by pressing the shutter release. If so, I suppose that's not too bad, but I'm too used to seeing them all, instantly on the D2X and R-D1.

Is the little LCD display backlit? How are you supposed to see them if your're shooting in the dark? Is the information duplicated anywhere on the LCD?

[photoin10sity]

Congratulations to everyone at Leica!

I don't think i'll be able to afford one of these right away, as it would be a hobbyist camera at first, but I have no doubt that many M8's will be sold.

Maybe I missed it, but how many is Leica prepared to ship in November?

[etanguero]

Thanks for the announcement in this forum, esp. by special info mail!
Allthough: it might have been advisable to start on beta-blokkers a week ago ...
... this cam is soooooooo exciting!!!
eT

[jpmay]

just wondering ... do most rangefinder users use their right, or left, eyeball ?

Could you suffer problems with your face mashing on the function buttons?



I suggest the "protect" button may be a bit superfluous.

I happened to buy one of the new sony "high def" video handycams the other day for home movies ... it has a really good GUI (not perfect, but really good) ... in fact it has a touch screen, which makes it flexible and clean. Perhaps future releases of the M8 will take a touch screen approach (eliminating the need for many buttons).

JP

[guy_mancuso]

Originally Posted by marknorton

Nikon is one button press, thumb the dial. That's it. For ISO, EV+/-, WB, Quality, Flash and so on.

I think speed of setting is one thing, not being able to see the settings at a glance is the real problem.

That is the issue that i should have mentioned . Thanks Mark

The issue is you need to pull the camera away from you to see and also move your fingers and somewhere else than on the lens assuming you would use your left hand. My thought was your right thumb does all of this with the dial and arrows so the only thing working is your right thumb and the info comes up in the viewfinder, like the EV in this case.

so Richard having a 10 mpx camera is not intended for professional use. Than either i should dump my 50 k investment in the DMR or you simply have not worked with these files for advertising or commercial use like many of us have . Better yet maybe i should just hang up my straps. I guess the 12K proposal i am writing at the moment i should just bag also.

[regista]

Nice! I just wonder how well it'll do in B&W.

Can't wait to see samples!

[henning]

Originally Posted by marknorton

Henning, presumably the purpose of the last set is to allow you to abort your change by just touching the shutter release.

Can you see these key settings just by pressing the set button and remove by pressing the shutter release. If so, I suppose that's not too bad, but I'm too used to seeing them all, instantly on the D2X and R-D1.

Is the little LCD display backlit? How are you supposed to see them if your're shooting in the dark? Is the information duplicated anywhere on the LCD?

Yes, obviously the intent of the last Set is to confirm, but I'd rather not have that. You can, after all, just go back and change it again. It's not like you're getting rid of options.

To see the key settings you have to select the specifics in the menu. For ISO, that means at least two presses of the Set button; a Set, scroll & Set for the others. Not as quick as the better DSLR's. On the other hand, the saved parameters are more inclusive, and thus more useful to me than on DSLR's.

On the whole, I find the menu setup very nice to work with, and for my purposes no less functional than that of the Canon's (except for that last Set press).

Henning